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Dizzy panic cycle

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

Hi Dizzy,

As you can see I just posted a similar type concern / question in the "planning for exposure work" section of the forum. I did that before I read your post here about exposure to distressing thoughts.

My problem is also that its thoughts that cause my panic attacks. I also want to know from others how to work with thoughts that bring on attacks.

Also I have trouble with bedtime too. I often wake up at 5 am with anxiety. My brain started thinking of distressing things while i was asleep and i wake up feeling anxious. then i am awake, and like you said, easy to ruminate which easily leads to more distressing thoughts.

Box breathing helps. i would say getting up to do yoga is not necessarily bad, it just won't address the root of the problem. My understanding of things like yoga etc.. is that they are helpful for relaxation but not going to remedy the problem. but are distractions necessarily a bad thing at 4 am if one needs to get back to sleep? my understanding (people can correct me if i am wrong) is that exposure work should be planned and although i havn't done it in a planned way yet, i doubt i will plan it for 4 am. :) meaning, there is a difference between dealing with anxious thoughts during planned exposure work and dealing with them at 4 am since most of us need to be resting at that time of day not doing exposure work.

Davit can you comment more about journaling? In your reply here to Dizzy you said you think journaling is the way to get positive core beliefs. I have often found that journaling leads me to distressing thoughts. Are you talking about journaling about the positive core beliefs one wants to build? or using journaling to investigate the negative core beliefs? I do that pretty well. except it often leaves me feeling upset. It exposes me to the negative core beliefs I have which is good but then one needs a plan for how to manage the anxiety that comes from the journaling.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 223

Hi Dizzy,

What I hear you saying is that having a routine may cause you more anxiety than not having a routine in the first place. This is a good point. I believe that is one of the reasons CBT sometimes suggest taking small steps instead of large leaps. It may be worthwhile to start with subtle changes in your pre-sleep routine to see if that helps. ie. reading or listening to relaxing music.

Another thing to consider is that you have to allow yourself slack for things not going well the first couple of times. This is a process and sometimes things just don't work out. This is ok.

As Davit suggested, the program must be adapted to your specific situation and you are the best suited at understand ing this. We are here to help you talk it out and re-focus your efforts...and celebrate your successes.

Please keep us posted and let us know how things are going. We are all here for you.

Jason, Bilingual Health Educator

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 118

Davit as usual I appreciate your advise and I have been journaling since may this year even before I came to CBT site perhaps it is just going to take longer then I hoped and maybe that is one of my problems.

Samantha I have a question I was talking to my CBT about things you should not eat and he made an interesting point that the thought about eating something wrong may do more damage then the actual food depending on who you are. I do not mean to belittle your advice but can the same thing be said for a sleep routine that the thought that your doing or not doing something has more effect then actually doing it. I mean no disrespect becuase it has occurred to me that CBT in a way has made a danger about the way I think not that changing it will make anything worse. It is like goggling all the traits an anxiuos person has and finding that they all fit. As the same as finding medical excuses for you anciety attacks I know way to much thinking.

Dizzy

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Dizzy,

I mentioned before that for two or more years I woke up every night (every night) at around 2:30 and had a full blown panic attack. The only thing that helped was journalling. First on paper and later on my laptop. With the lap top I didn't need to get out of bed. I kept a file like this for two more years after the panic attacks spread out. Looking over it I got an idea of what was setting them off. It was a single major core belief with many related sub beliefs and thoughts I had built on it over the years. I also noticed I had a calcium deficiency. (I have osteopenia) The only time I have panic attacks now is when I take certain medications and they are only a couple a year and mild. They have stopped since changing medication.

I still get anxiety if I eat too late at night. Like last night when I pigged out on pumpkin pie. But it is just restlessness, not panic.

I still insist that it is perception. And journalling is really about the only way to build positive core beliefs, telling yourself works temporary, but just doesn't have the power writing does.

Once the panic attacks stop then telling yourself will work for the anxiety you still get. Also when you write you will spot when messages are not going through clearly and you can say okay that is why I feel anxious and shut them down before they become panic.

There is no easy answer. There is a system to follow but has to be adjusted for your situation. Hang in there, it does work. I can't remember if you are taking a Benzo (not Ativan) to help you sleep. Talk to your Doctor, you may need some help sleeping. It is not giving in. It is

working the system for maximum benefits. The end justifies the means as long as you don't give in and live on the meds. The program works. It takes time but it works.

Here for you,

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 2606

Hello dizzy,

You can also try having a "sleeping routine". Basically, preparing yourself to get to sleep can have great effects on the quality of sleep you end of having. This also might help you in not waking up in the middle of the night. For example, try to avoid eating 3 hours before you are planning to go to sleep, make sure that your bedroom is dark and free of distractions (computers, bright alarm clocks..., avoid watching tv right before bed instead you could listen to some relaxing music or read. Try some of these tips, incorporate other ideas and make a bedtime routine for yourself. I have even heard some refer to their pre-bedtime routine as nearly a ceremony. It is also a great idea to refer back to the sessions when you feel the need to do so.

Members, what suggestions do you have for dizzy?

Samantha, Health Educator

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 118

I have been doing a lot of work on exposing myself to thoughts, because I have attack in bed and cannot do gradual exposure work like going near a crowded mall as a first step to being in a crowed. I either get in bed or never go to sleep again “which I have been considering” just joking. I find myself have epiphanies every couple of days I even went back to session 1 and 2 and got some new insight after working on myself for awhile. When I had an epiphany, I think this is going to be the answer to my attacks in bed.

What usually follows is a sleepless night anxious that I have solved the problem by finding that one last crucial negative thought. Being awake for a good, deal of the night allows me to ruminate about things and this is where I start getting into trouble. As the morning goes along and it gets closer to getting out of bed, I postulate that I become more anxious because I want to get out of bed without having an attack. Once this thought hits my mind this generally is the trigger to an attack. Imagine not wanting an attack causes an attack (I know someone in the forum got over attack by saying come on give me one), overall I am generally not afraid of an attack I score around 2 most of the time. Except on days when I anticipate that I have solved all the problems related to my attacks in bed, and have one, I get angry for having one which make the intensity go up on days.

So I started thinking what could I do with my time in bed when I awake that would be more productive then thinking about whether I solved all the negative thinking I need to, to stop the attacks. I started postulating that I could distract myself by thinking of a song or doing yoga in my mind. However, after reading session 6 you say not to distract yourself before exposure. I am having a hard time with this because I cannot expose myself to a moderate level of anxiety to going to bed in fact I probably have little anxiety when I go to bed it is just when I wake up that is the problem. Maybe I can get Michael Jackson doctor to drug me up to stay asleep, just kidding. I really cannot expose myself right now to much more thinking about wanting no panic attacks. I see it from both sides I want to go back to work so there lies the problem but if I never went back to work, I would still like them to stop, so I do not see going back to work as the problem.

I know one solution on the internet is to want to have an attack, in this way you are saying I am not afraid of you. For people that have exposed themselves to their thoughts or anyone with suggestions as what I can do, please forward a self addressed envelope that I have sent you and reply to post office box P.O. PANIC SESSOIN 6, just kidding again. I am wondering if anyone had success to exposing themselves to their thought as a way of eliminating panic did it stop abruptly or did you go 2 days then 3 and gradually get out of the panic cycle. I think one of my problems is I am trying to find that one universal thought that would stop them. I used to think once I found this thought that I could use it to stop all attacks from occurring in the future but I know this is unrealistic because the future always changes and so will my thoughts

Dizzy, can anyone notice I did not get much sleep last night

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