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13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

The "no where man" is usually when you lose interest in life and actually can not participate in it because you can not think straight. Not so much a fog where you sort of lose reality or it fades in and out. I believe it is a chemical imbalance much like depression except depression plays on your mind. No where man is just not functioning. If it is mild it could be from reducing the valium. In this case it would be a coping or survival reaction and would pass as the body got used to a lower dose. But every one is different. I, and this is just me have never had any symptoms from cold turkey with valium. BUT. Because of CBT what happens to me is I forget to take it because I don't need it. Remember I was dependent on the max. dose of Ativan for four years. That I could not get off. Switching to valium, three years of therapy and CBT got me off the Ativan. I was not on the valium very long and most times it was just when I could not control the invasive thoughts. CBT does work by realigning the thought patterns. I talked to my therapist about the panic triangle and about OCD.

She said with OCD there is always a reason, so removing the reason should remove the OCD. Does this make sense to you. I'm still working on this and may have to go back to her for more information.

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 195

Davit, and whoever else has been following my trials and tribulations in this thread:

I found this link about withdrawals and weaning off valium. I know it's soley for information, but found it interesting.
I have had a prescription for diazepam for about 8 years. It's 5 mg twice a day as needed. Most of the time I have not needed it a lot. Half of a 5mg pill here and there. But in tough times when there is lot's of OCD and/or panic, I will use a full 5 mg. I also would use the full 5 mg when we have our work meeting on Friday, incase they ask me to read to everyone. This is kind of chickening out.

Recently, since my OCD has been really bad, my doctor advised taking the suggested dose until the OCD was under control. Of course I mix this in with my regular exercise and good diet of food and vitamins. I don't just count on the meds

I am now down to a maintainance dose of half a pill when needed. Today and yesterday I took a half in the morning and then another half around 1 pm. I feel foggy today. Could this be the fog or "nowhere man" feeling you experienced?

I have had this fog before, but never really related to being from using diazepam for a few years.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 195

One more.

On the mortality issue/non-acceptance: It's all related to my OCD. Repetitive thoughts of it really are annoying. Often it's as if I just realized it's part of life for the first time. I'll be enjoying myself and then bam! It's frustrating and scary. As a young child, I was often afraid to fall asleep for fear that I would not wake up again.

When I can get ahead of OCD, I pretty much have the control I want. The piece of mind I desire and the mind clears.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 195

Davit,

Thank you so much for understanding how I felt about the mush comment. I have tried all kinds of things. I am not proud of using valium, but sometimes it's the only thing that can get me out of a bad place and give me a break. It often takes a few hours or a day to clear my head of it. Do you know of any methods to clear the fog that valium may or may not cause? Sometimes that fog is helpful, but it's bothersome when I want to concentrate. The situations I sometimes use it for is when I am really panicky or having really bad OCD that can lead to a panic attack. One reason I am so afraid of panic attacks is that years ago, I would suffer long periods of depression following an attack. One such year (1985) I ended up admitting myself into a pschych ward so I could break the cycle of panic, depression, depersonalization and other things. This was long before I ever used any meds. I smoked the occassional joint in 1982, one which helped cause a panic attack that led to a long period of depression that December. That was the last time I ever smoked pot. I had no business smoking the stuff being that I was an athlete. Peer pressure.

I was even on the wrong meds, it would seem, for about 7 years from 1985-1993. A pschyiatrist did not diagnose me with OCD. He diagnosed me with confusion/depression/anxiety/panic. All of them are or can be associated with Obsessive Complusive Disorder. But the OCD I have has changed over the years. While at one point it revolved around rituals that were physical in nature, like counting a number of times or turning a light switch a certain amount of times and many other things, even sitting a certain way for an entire football game so I would not jinx my team. I literally used to think my team would have done differently had I watched the game. That was my teen years. One example was when the Dallas Cowboys lost to the 49ers 45-14 in 1981. I thought had I watched the game, they might have done better or even won. Now my rituals are mostly in thought, in my head, often very bothersome and unwanted. These thoughts can create anxiety or just cause me to become depressed.

I again admitted myself in 1993 for similar reasons during my failed first marriage that ended that year.

I said all this to outline exactly why I am so afraid of panic. Exposure work may help, but a little at a time.

I got such a rush from my yoga and shoulder workout last evening that nothing bothered me for about 2 hours.

My recent OCD has been bad because it's about mortality. I don't want to think about it, but OCD can be very non-bias.

OK, time to feed the turtles and workout.

As usual, any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

David

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

I agree "mush" was a bit excessive but you get what I mean. More a no feeling either way sort of being. I know because some times I have been heavily sedated and it is a real "nowhere man" feeling. Gives me anxiety to think back to those days. Really. I don't want to go back there even in my mind. Brings the panic up. See we can't forget, only bury. I'm still burying. Life is good, no need for me to think about that, it is over.

You seem to be gaining over the OCD even if it is still there. I see to that you care that you are using valium and I would not say that dose is actually a crutch. Especially since you are trying other things and you don't want to use it. I know about it being so bad you have to. Been there. I'm definitely not criticizing. I feel you will find something that either replaces it or lets you not need it.

Yoga probably is a form of CBT if it lets you change your thought patterns. I would think with your discipline that you would be a good teacher. Go for it. Helping others will help you.

You are right. It will always be there. Mine is. Sunny's is. We have just learned how not to go there. That is CBT.

I don't think you need an SSRI but that is just my opinion, not a recommendation, you know I can't do that.

I've been here a long time. I can see the change, I think Vincenza wanted to know if you can.

There will be a time when you have to let the anxiety and panic and depression happen in non critical times just to see how your coping and relaxing skills are. That is farther down the program but you may be ready now. Something to think about. But you should read on and understand exposure first. It will be a case of getting worse before getting better but it does get better. And it does chase the panic away. I don't know about the OCD but then you seem to be accepting the OCD and not letting it bother you.

I hope I am more help than hindrance.

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 195

OK, I have got to make this short. I just finished 45 minutes of yoga and have to shower, and then relax with my wife while she grades papers, and then it's Sleepytime Tea.

Mine has been a long journey. No one in my family really knew where all my anxiety and panic came from. My Father had similar things bother him, but he was never as open about it as me. He also used valium as a crutch just like I do now.

Today, I felt so good, all I needed was 2.5 mg for the am, and I lasted the whole day without a major episode. A tad of depersonalization when I had a thought of long ago. I find much of my depersonalization comes from when I reflect (on purpose or not) on days long past. I guess that has something to do with how we change as we grow older and we are not the exact person we were when we think back to years past.

Davit, I have to admit, I was a little offended when you mentioned brain turning to mush. But I know you meant no harm. I think I was offended because I use it as a crutch and sometimes depend on it and there's some guilt involved because I need it sometimes.

My counting definitely came from OCD. As a teen, I had to do rituals before bed, like turning light switches a certain amount of time or taking steps an exact way, etc. Now the rituals mainly come as thoughts, like, if I don't do this or if I do this, something bad will happen or maybe not. It gets very confusing.

You asked how I compare myself to a year ago? That's a hard one because this past year went by so fast, it seemed. I was still having OCD at this time last year, but about less bothersome things. I still had depression and other anxieties. I know I will always have these things. But sometimes it will be easy and sometimes it gets hard. It's a hard question to answer. But I do know that I have become very determined to better myself through yoga. Been doing it for 9 months straight now at least 3 times a week, but more recently it's been nearly every day. This is the most I have done yoga since around 2007. I even want to get certified as an instructor. I do not really think college is the way to go for me, but I might give it another try in January. I chickened out this year.

I feel yoga is a form of CBT. It helps you let go.

I have been doing the program, but not for more than a week, but I have been using the symptom tracker.

Just about a month ago was when I saw the new doctor who told me he wanted to put me on Paxil and Hyroxizine. Through much thought and advice, I decided against it. I have to say that since last night, basically since this weekend, I have felt better than any sequence of days since the anxiety of being told I should go on another SSRI, again. This doctor saw me for 20 minutes. I trust my MD, who I have known for about 17 years, and am staying on the same thing. The natural methods seem to be helping, especially the change with using more gaba, which has worked for me in the past, but now I am using ith without Niacin in it. Too much flushing from that product.

OK, I hope that answers everyone's questions. My main problem is OCD/Panic. When I can keep the OCD to an acceptable level, I am very productive and happy.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1853

Hi Wrestler,

I agree with Davit, you sound positive and in control, even though I imagine when you are in the midst of a panic attack or 'stuck' in a moment of OCD you feel far from having control. You know what works best for you in managing your panic/anxiety and choosing exercise, yoga, lifting weights is the best thing you can do for your body and mind!! It sounds like your father was a strong influence on you in choosing natural means to help your body find harmony and balance. Continue doing what you are doing!

It sounds like you have come a long way in your journey to better health and peace of mind.

How do you see yourself today as compared to 1 year ago?

Vincenza, Health Educator

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Wrestler.

Good. So you just need time. For me it took five years to get where I am. And I still have a ways to go. I could stay where I am but I think I can get better.

When I asked about counting I meant as a distraction. I still do it to fill in space when I'm doing something boring or depressing and the negative is getting too accessible. I can multi task but I find counting fills in the dead spots. Maybe it is a bit of OCD but it works. I do it stirring a pot, or pulling weeds. Has nothing to do with the number of weeds some times, it is just a space filler. I think I started this paddling a canoe over long boring stretches.

Yes people I am a bit weird!

The same with when I'm doing something that makes me a bit anxious. I tell myself it is my decision to do it and it has less effect. Some times the anxiety will just go away when I do this.

You sound very positive in this post.

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 195

Hugs,

I agree. A little anxiety is needed. I get a rush from working out, which can be seen as anxiety. Panic is also needed, but the panic I was having was off the charts at times.

I had a lot of anxious moments last night watching the Cowboy game, and it felt great. It makes you feel alive.

David

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 195

Davit,

All good suggestions and information. I take a powder magnesium supplement that also has calicum and other assorted vitamins. I'm a vitamin nerd. Goes well with being a fitness addict.

You asked if I am a counter. I was a huge counter when I was in my teens and even into my 20's. Now the OCD I get is unwanted thoughts or even weird thoughts or songs that I like and keep playing in my head. When the mortality thought gets stuck in my head, it can cause panic due to the lack of control over destiny.

On counting, again, I remember counting a lot when my Mother was close to dying in the hospital of cancer. This was 1976. I remember visiting her and doing or touching something 4 times to make something even. She thought it was cute, but OCD was not popular back then in the '70's. Not sure if I developed it due to her illness or if it occurred before.

I do remember as a child, if I did not hear something someone said, I felt something bad would happen if I did not ask them to repeat it. I still get caught up in this sometimes, especially if I don't hear what my wife says.

As for SSRI's, I was on prozac for 10 years and am glad to be off it since 2003. I frequently got anxiety and depression while using it, and I felt sluggish and did not have drive for much, including sex and exercise. Free of most meds, I am a workout machine.

Today I got by on 2.5 mg of valium, my usual vitamins, 500 mg of gaba, 100 mg of 5HTP. I also had a cup of chamomile tea on the drive home. I love chamomile.

On the meds mention where you said am I using meds to totally block out panic and anxiety. This is not what I am using it for. I use it for certain stressful situations. I know valium is not a fix-all. I don't want to use it a lot, but there are those times where my mind will not stop and valium becomes the STOP sign. I am guilty there.

Perhaps I have used it too often during certain times, but that's not the half of it. For much of the mid-to late '80's, I was on elavil and ativan. I just kept having panic attacks, whether they were out of the blue or self caused or during stress.

It was not until 1995, when I started visiting with a really good therapist, that I started to break out of the funk I was in for several years. I had so much hidden inside me, from my Mother dying when I was 10, having to see my Father suffer from loneliness for years, being picked on just for being small and Jewish, to being married to a verbally abusive person from 1989-1993

I had moments of dissociation or depersonalization long before I ever took valium.

I don't want to have to use any meds, but (there's always a but) when cornered into a panic situation, it's noce to know it's there.

Exercise has always been my go-to for anything bothering me. This is always my first choice, but I cannot always exercise where I am at any given time. Yoga and weights have been the most effective for me. It takes me to a place where anxiety does not exist.

I used to have anxiety attacks in high school. I had no idea what was happening to me. As a young child, I would wake up screaming, and no one knew why.

On turning ones mind to mush, this could be anyone. There are millions addicted to prescription drugs like pain killers, sleeing pills, and yes, valium, among others, but think they are not doing anything wrong because they are "legal" drugs. Elvis died due to complications of prescription drugs. But a doctor gave them to him, which means they were "legal." That doctor is now parodied on the Simpsons as Dr. Nick.

Our culture is being tricked into thinking drugs can help any problems from restless legs to having to take a bathroom break at a sports event; from pain to dry eyes and from high cholesterol to impotence. The commercials that sicken me the most are the ones where the person says, "I'm all Advil." Or the Lipitor one where the same actor who "diet and exercise were not enough," also appears in an Ancestry.com commercial claiming he found lost relatives.

Anyway, that's my take.

Time to feed the turtles and then yoga. I am tired because the Dallas Cowboys decided to blow a 14 point lead in the 4th quarter, and I did not get to sleep until after 12 and got up at 5:30.

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