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13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

Mindfulness

I like this perspective.

personally, i know i have to mourn the loss of what i was not given between birth and age 7, almost seperately from anything after that which is substantive, but that stuff from birth to age 7 seems more hurtful. i suppose because we knew / know we needed protection, loyalty, love, loving boundaries as you say, and loving discipline.

Yesterday i was reading about a completely different topic of human nature, but the concept of pleasure was part of the author's analysis. she was talking about how in certain cultures, pleasure has been put to the side, we don't learn enough about pleasure or joy or spend ennough time having joyful moments even as children. that resonated with me too. anxiety has sometimes taken over during events when i wish i were having fun like others around me. managing my anxiety is going ot help me recover some of that ability to en-joy things again, or for the first time.

emotions of course exist from the moment we are born but ages 4-6 seem to be a time when a child asks "what do i do with these (scary) emotions? and they need adults around who can answer that, and ideally not just talk about it but model it. if everyone around them is negative, or deals with emotions dysfunctionally (i.e. alcohol) that child is going to adopt a negative orientation towards the world. yes i am describing myself. i see this more clearly every day. these negative thoughts are automatic, they are deeply ingrained habitual ways of "making sense" of the world around me. they don't have to dictate my destiny. growing up means not having to be that child ever again. depedent on sommeone else for protection, guidance, care of our basic needs.

yesterday i was with a group of adults and shared a concern i have just something i am trying to problem solve. and the "advice" was so negative. and self righteous. and without empathy.

now this is by no means my first interaction where this happened. this happens all the time to me and i suspect to other people who know negative thinking people. but usually the day after such a conversation, i would come home and have my own negative thought spiral about how i am mad at them for not listening, upset that they didn't seem to really care about my problem, and so on. today because of being in this program i can challenge those negative thoughts. some of their comments were thoughtless yes, but some were well intentioned perhaps, and in general it really didn't mean much to them, and i shouldn't spend so much time thinking negative thoughts about the negativity around me. easier said than done though without a CBT to guide through this change.

i think i have mixed up a few topics here in this post, sorry. i'll do better to stay on topic.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

Unsupportive Friends

Hi Kendra,

I've been told by people to "grow up" or "stop whining" and also been told some of these same things your "friend" told you. I know how much it hurts when you tell someone something about yourself like that and they come back with such hurtful words. It sounds like you were expecting more understanding and I don't blame you one bit. Why not expect some understanding when sharing osmething like that? Why don't people treat it more like having a broken leg or something physical? that is what drives me nuts. if you broke your leg people wouldn't tell you to stop whining.

I have also heard every excuse under the sun if I ask someone why they've been hurtful. everything from "its our cultural way to "because of my age / gender / i had a bad day, etc.."

the fact is that they can always choose to apologize. maybe eventually she will apologize for that hurtful comment. you never know. maybe , maybe not.

sometimes i think of us people like chickens, pecking at each other the way chickens peck at each other when they are caged too much. we peck at parents a lot. parents get a lot of pecking. no matter what we do, w'ere screwing up our kid. why is there so many people so willing and able to criticise or make us feel bad? I don't know the whole answer. I know that anyone who is seeking solutions and support for the problems they face, like you are , is a good parent. I don't know you but you are learning about something you need help with. That takes courage. If we all did that, what a different world it would be. Some people don't want to find solutions. they want to peck others.

Maybe we should start a thread to discuss parenting while learning to manage anxiety. Being a parent definitely adds another dimension to it. We all worry about what we pass along to our babes eithe via genes or nurturing. Its natural to worry about it to some degree because it is part of wanting the best for your child.

There is absolutely no way for any one person to "know" why a child behaves a certain way and anyone who says "oh he's like that because his grandma drinks" or "he's like that because he is an only child" or "his mom has issues" is just stating a theory. a hypothesis. they could be right, they could be wrong. its a bit of a game some people play, trying to label kids or find a reason for their behaviour. i am very lucky that my childs daycare actively resists labeling kids like that or saying "oh those kids of divorced parents' or "oh those kids of anxious parents' because that is just a bad attitude to have.

kids are amazingly resilient and yes, they pick up on our anxiety probably but they pick up on everything aroudn them, the good and the bad.

i just felt for you when iread your original post.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

planning for exposure work

Hi Ashley,

I think that because i've wanted new friends after having so many move away, that maybe i've been 'used' a bit by people who really were not very interested in me from the start but i didn't see that because i was busy hoping they would become my new best friend.

tracking my negative thoughts has helped me, given my brain more space to pay attention to what people actualy do and say rather than ruminate so much which took up a lot of real estate in my mind all these years.

I havn't had many experiences with people, including friends, where we talk abouot the actual relatinoship / friendship. like sit down and say "what do you expect from me" and dialogue about our expectations or something like that. do people actually do that? I don't think i know how women actually talk to each other and keep a friendship going over time. mine always move away or stop talking to me for no apparent reason. that has happened a few times now.

Like in my relationship, i don't think things would go well if i used my anxious thoughts as a starting point. those are negative thoughts like "you don't really care about me" "you are just using me" "why don't you want to get to know me better". Maybe as I continue through the program I'll find out how to verbalize what is underneath these anxious thoughts without causing the turmoil it causes when i 'throw' my anxiety at someone. What do you think? What have others experienced in terms of communicating differently after the anxious thoughts are managed better?

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

Mindfulness

Davit,

Thanks for this description. its like 2nd hand smoke, you breathe it in even if you don't wnat to, because you're in the same room with them.

and hey, one year at a family gathering i put my foot down and said, could you smoke outside so we don't have to breathe that in? and the next family gatherhing they had, i didn't get invited. no apology, no explanation, nothing.. so that behaviour tells me what they thought about my assetiveness. but hey i am glad i did and i would do it agian. thanks for reminding me of this!

i am not just co-dependent, i don't like labels but i do like having a way to understand something so its a double edged sword.

i like to say i have co-dependent tendancies. sometimmes i am assertive. sometimes i am not. since starting the program i've been assertive a bit more than before and see that continuing. i feel great about this. this site has been life changing.

because i wan'st busy being anxious or upset and ruminating after the negativity talk on monday i had time / space to think about it from a non anxious angle for once. why did that happen? i was in a room of about 10 adults and we had been conversing together all afternoon but as soon as i expressed there was something i was struggling with, they pounced on me and the room was a flurry of negative statements all of a sudden. all directed at me. no wonder i used to go home nad have panic attacks when i thought about these afterwards.

i have been trying to purge the negativity i've absorbed the only way i knew how - through panic..

then i thought about it. no one else had admitted to having a problem with anyting that day. the game we were playing was "we're all perfect and life is perfect all of the time". no one else said "ugh, i've had such a bad week at work" or whatever. the rest of the day was mostly people talking about tv shows etc. just impersonal stuff.

so then, me not knowing the game we were playing, i said something authentic. i have a problem, so what? everyone has problems. thats life. but i got pounced on. because "i struggle with things" isn't part of the game with that particular group of people.

which is only played by people who are projecting their false self. we all struggle with things form time to time. its part of being alive.

so instead of ruminating and feeling upset that they didn't understand me, i was able to have these insights. and conclude that i didn't do anything wrong. i admitted i was human. how dare i! :)

thanks for your replies. they were really helpful. i'll be more mindful of the second hand anxiety and second hand smoke!

the idea of people in social settings playing games is not mine. i read it somewhere. ican find the reference if people are interested. it was a fascinating article by a pyschologist or sociologist talking about social relations and there being rules to the games in conversations and penalties for not playing properly.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

Mindfulness

What you posted here is really going to stick with me I think. I've wondered why part of me seems so optimistic and part of me seems so pessimistic. your post helps to answer this.

I have a connection to my belief that life can be good, people can be happy. all the negativity i've witnessed has not obliviated it, though it has been shaken and bruised deeply and often.

I believe people can be happy, things can be good. 2nd hand negativity is what i was born into. Someone saying glass half empty every day of my childhood left its mark.

but i have a lot of living left and i refuse to believe the glass is half empty. a part of me never believed it and this program is feeding that part of me. nourishing it.

finally.

i've had some good tears of joy the last 2 weeks in meeting everyone here. thank you everyone. thank you.

we were born to nourish each other. that is what i believe.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

Mindfulness

I cannot remember a time when I didn't believe deep down that life can be more than just round after round of negativity game playing. I htink as a child I figured out the game and didn't want "in". I suffered a lot for this, argued unecessarily, wasted hours of time arguing with apples about it i guess you could say, and weathered dissapointment after dissapointment.

i am going to cultivate more assertiveness with myself. i was not crazy for believing in a positive outlook, i was just surrounded by sad people.

as i write this, someone in my life is emailing me and trying to get me to play the "we'll pretend we don't have issues to sort out" game. i'm not interested in playing. not at all. i don't know what to tell her but i believe (!) I will find the words, and that regardless of what i do or say, i will be intact afterwards. i have an inner compass and she or anyone else can't tell me i don't anymore.

i have liked getting older. the game seems more childish the older i get. :)

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

Relaxation

Spartan,

I agree about yoga. It is good for the body and mind. I found a cheap yoga dvd that is actually really good. so it doesn't have to be expensive. although I did go through intro to yoga many years ago to get the basics of how to hold each posture. if people struggle with that i highly suggest one good intro class so the instructor can correct your posture.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

planning for exposure work

Davit,

I don't think i even have to hesitate. yes i have attracted people who have problems they don't want to do anything about. yes. i want to change this. for years i repelled positive people. i actively disengaged from them, i can point to at least a few that i had to stop talking with because their positive outlook was something i was not ready for yet. their positivity drew out every one of my negativity core beliefs or dragons. so i lost some opportunities there. i see that now.

i've been more comfortable around people who've been through some crap in life because i've been through some crap too. but i guess the key difference is that i've been trying to overcome or at least address my issues not wallow in them fully. i've made big changes in my life that took a lot of courage to end relationships and change things that were not working in my life.

now i think i am shifting over. i'm more comfortable around positive people than ever before. i have found out what you said - that positive people are more cautious about who they let in. i don't always know how to act around them, i am like an awkward teenager on a date sometimes around them it seems. i know i have to 'be myself' but i guess that will become more comfortable over time.

right now i still attract more negative people than positive people. my own anxiety prevented me from seeing this i think. i was busy being anxious. i didn't see what they were doing (or not doing). now that my anxiety is being monitored by me, i havve freed up some ability to see the people in my life for who they are , what they want with me and whether i agree about what they hope to share with me or not.

right now i have some anxious thoughts that i will "blow it" with a positive person i've started being closeer friends with. i'm so unpracticed at it. i have to think about what i say around her just because i think sometimes i revert back to being defensive or false self out of habit. i dont want to scare her off. i know its not the end of the world if i do but unlike so many other people in my life, she is actually fun to be around, inerested in me, and expresses concern if i say i am not feelign well for example or something like that. i know i can't hold on to her anymore than you can hold on to sand in your hand by holding on more tightly. but its tempting to try to exert control or use my anxiety as my compass which is what i did prior to this program.

this is really helpful to think about the stuff you post here.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

September is Healthy Aging Month!

I agree with davit.

Getting older means you just run out of patience for childish behaviour. that is a good thing.

Getting older means you've done lots of important things enough times to not be nervous about them like you were when you didn't have the experiences yet.

Getting older means knowing how to make myself content on a day off, what things to do and how to take care of myself on a work day and on a day off. I miss the energy I had when i was younger but i can probably do momre with the energy i have now so i guess that makes me feel good about being older.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 356

Helpful Questions For Challenging Your Anxious Thoughts

Hi Jas,

I had tried to forgive people before who had hurt me but it never stuck. it found its way to me, or i cleared the path for it to come is truly how it felt, even if that sounds spacey or ethereal. it wasnt'. it did have to have a cleared path and it did show up. so i wanted to put that out there again because i know a lot of us struggle with forgiveness.

i agree with you the forum has been wonderful. the program is good. i think i had a workbook that covered the same territory before. but i didn't hear anyone say "this will work". seeing that said over and over here is what i think did it for me so far. i brought some faith and again, cleared a path so i could see if they were right. and they are. the way i think is slowly transforming. hooray.

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