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11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

I think it has to do with the constant messaging they rewire their heads with "I am this....." and "This will happen...."

This is what I don't understand where you get the theory of yours. People go out for several reasons. Foremost reason is, people still have a lurking notion that they can handle a drink or two, with that half-hearted effort they stick around the fellowship, never do the the work and then the go out and blame AA. Or some just do steps 1 2 and 3, never write an inventory and share it with another person. Then there are people who don't make amends.Then there is a group that think doing the 12 steps is a one time deal and get complacent.

The 12 steps is all about power. Power to lead a serene life, where there is no obsession. Power to help other alcoholics who wish to get well. I. I will say its a 100% successful if the individual applies the principles in all their affairs and continues to do so rest of the life. One of the first few guys I listened to was Don Pritts. I learned he was going around AA speaking until the day before he died.

You can always look at the bad examples and put down the program. But I like to look at the good in the program and share it with others. Yes there will be lot of failures because that is the nature of the beast. We see several of them come into the rooms of AA, jails and instituations with 5, 6 some even 10 DUIs yet they are in denial. I take a meeting to a corrections institute here in GA, there a guy is serving 10 years for shop lifting, all for drugs/alcohol. You would think he would stop after 1st or 2nd arrest. 3rd time he landed in jail. He says he has been associated with AA since 1989 but never surrendered. But evetually he realized the powerlessness and unmanageabiltiy and has put together 5 years of sobriety. For some, it takes what it takes to awaken. Thats the tragedy.

11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 55

Hey Dave, My post is basically just a time-out call for you, foxman, and jakelad. Just to have you guys pause and get back to supporting others rather than an exchange in differences of opinion. Like you and others here, I do not consider myself a candidate for AA, so I'm asking the fellowship to refrain from selling it. My statement about talking to my subconscious was in relation to some previous post you made where you totally lost me with the internalizing, training the sub-conscious, and all the psychology stuff which went way over my head. Please don't get me wrong, for I most certainly do value your posts and those of everyone on this site. I just felt like a referee in the game and thought it was a good time to blow the whistle. Now lets resume play! Swig

11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1009

Hi Swig,

You make a lot of good points. I find it interesting that the observation I made about AA is considered a knock because it highlights something that I have come to see as a negative. It is made based on a lot of dialogue, experience, and observation with people I've come to know in the program. Yes, it's not pleasant but it's also a consistent reality I've seen happen time and time again. Is it exclusive to them? Of course not. The many drivers for the drinking problem predate the drinking problem itself. And yes, I agree 100%, positive re-enforcement, combined with unconditional support and acceptance are cornerstones to resolving this challenge. I was wondering if you could clarify what you mean..."I don’t believe consciously talking to my sub-conscious repeatedly will make it become more conscious...."

Jake, thank you for the Big Book quote. I wish it were that simple and maybe it is. What would you expect is a reasonable time frame to get through this?

" But most of the people who are problematic drinkers have to go beyond that. Journaling, posting alone will not work. I am addressing those audience……."

I find this method of getting past this challenge very interesting Foxman. Has it been your experience that doing this and getting a hobby alone has resolved the challenge or are you possibly referring to someone in particular?

11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 421

I agree also. There are so many triggers it's hard to find them all. I think it's a long process to uncover the triggers we encounter everyday and that they might just build up...I struggle to make sense of this process everyday and am grateful that I have this site to go to and get support and the resources of you all. The friends I have found here and the common threads have made such a difference in my life.

11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 55

Great topic TS!

I agree, everything can be a trigger. When we drink we creat a trigger, thus creating a justification or excuse to drink again under similiar circumstances. After 30+ years drinking, alcohol had become my norm. The only time I didn't drink was while at work. With the exception of my job, basically everything else was/is a trigger. Just as every trigger is a reason to indulge, I have found that there are an equal number of negative aspects to drinking (I call blockers) providing reasons not to indulge. I guess the biggest challenge is to quickly identify and disperse those blockers immediately when the trigger appears.

Swig

11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 55

Let’s not knock the methods/vehicles used to attain our sobriety. The main focus here should be one of support to the person who has already made a decision to come here to change their drinking; be it moderation or complete abstinence. One of the most effective ways we can support each other is by sharing similar experiences and stories and relaying how we successfully overcame specific hurdles. We don’t need to sell ideals or philosophies that may look like recruitment campaigns. There is no One Size Fits All. What works for one, may not work for another.

For me, I came to AHC seeking support for a decision I made to take back the control I gave to alcohol.

· I don’t believe that I’m powerless over alcohol.

· I don’t believe I’m doing this through some divine intervention.

· I don’t believe consciously talking to my sub-conscious repeatedly will make it become more conscious.

But I do believe (and have experienced) that everyone here has something to offer each other. We all have, at the least, two thing in common; one, we understand the various feelings and emotions attached with problem drinking and two; we all want to change. Positive re-enforcement, even when we do screw up, is probably the best support we can offer here.

Have a great sober day!

Swig

11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 421

Sorry All I tried to use the quote feature and again I did it wrong. My post is at the bottom of the reprint of TS entire post.
:-)

11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 421

"It takes time to readjust (rewire) how you think and relate to alcohol. Alcohol deserves to be respected for the drug that it is and be treated as potentially dangerous." TS---That's so true. I like how you put the out there the dangerous illnesses it can create just by being alcohol and being injested. When we think of it in those terms it's quite shocking. I have many times played in my head a quote from you early on about how non glamourous alcohol and hangovers are. I think as early drinkers we were made to feel like drinking was something "special" and the media has made that even more prevelant today with all the hard liquor ads. In fact I don't remember a time when I've seen more vodka ads on TV, in magazines, internet...etc. Trigger happy! I love that. I think we have many triggers that we don't even know exist. We've installed them in our brains and fed them when they surface with more alcohol. I know that when I decide to binge, I may not know it...but my brain and AV do. And the part of me that decides these things knows it. Logic is shut down....raw emotion is driviing. Also, I find it interesting and true what I've heard (read) Dave say about feeling too confident about our progress and then messing it up. I do that. I don't know why yet but, I will have progress and it's like my brain catches it and say's "whoa" you don't need to feel good about not drinking....here you go have a binge and see how proud you are. That's caused by a trigger. I have to look inward to decipher what it is. Great topic TS! Thanks!

11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 315

it seem most prevalent with people that embark on a long-tem path with AA. I think it has to do with the constant messaging they rewire their heads with "I am this....." and "This will happen....". Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. That means join a group, get a sponsor and work the steps. I have seen lots go out in my short time and everyone of the them stopped going to meetings, didn't talk their sponsor and did not work the steps. For the long term members step 12 must come into play. Giving back to the new person. For those that can "get a hobby and find sobriety" hat off too you, you are not likely alcoholic. If you are alcoholic your hobby will soon include a spree.

11 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

I am speaking based on experience. We are talking about a small percent of population here, who, left on their resources will go back out. Our book asks us to introduce ourselves as "Recovered Alcholohics" but modern day AA being influenced by Treatment center ideology where it tells people we will always be recovering, people these days introduce themselves as 'Recovering Alcoholic'.

I have been visiting this forum last few years and have see maybe approximately 100 people. I wonder where are they now. Once in a while people who joined and then embraced the program of AA are sober. Like I said, all some people have to do is put the plug in the jug and get a hobby. But most of the people who are problematic drinkers have to go beyond that. Journaling, posting alone will not work. I am addressing those audience.

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