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10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 11226

Hello all,

I wanted to say thank you to all of you who are remaining respectful while discussing your differing view points. A big part of what makes AHC so great is we do not believe there is one way to abstain or moderate. We believe each individual needs to make their own choices when it comes to recovery. There really is no one size fits all.

To ensure we remain respectful please continue to share your ideas and personal experiences. Please use the word "I" instead of "you". This will ensure we do not force our views on anyone else. For example, "I think moderation worked well for me." as opposed to, "You must moderate in order to succeed." Also, please refrain from using labels. If you are comfortable and feel it is helpful to label yourself as alcoholic or even drunk that is your personal choice but please do not apply that label to anyone else.

We are lucky to have such a diverse group of supporters in our arsenal! Thanks for your honest and helpful posts everyone.

Ashley, Health Educator

Here to help :)

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

Its very normal for human beings to root out examples of people for whom it didn't work. Like I stated before, I am truly not in a position to comment on your Brother-in-law. I really don't know if he really worked the steps or just going to meetings. I know lot of people in AA today who don't work the steps but simply go to meetings and when going gets stuff, they drink and blame AA. And then there are several people I know who work the 12 steps lead an amazing purposeful life.

If you want to learn on how the program works, I would suggest you listen to the workshop I listed below. For me since English was my 2nd language, it was bit foggy. This workshop brought the true message:

https://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=13

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 345

Hi foxman,

I think I have a better understanding as to what "powerless" infers. It's really not that we're powerless so much as we are divorcing ourselves from our toxic relationship with alcohol. For us to heal, we must admit that the relationship no longer works (powerless). Once we are comfortable with this decision we become empowered by resolving the issues surrounding the toxic affiliation and we eventually realize the power of our conscientiousness aka god.

I'll read your suggested material as I'm really interested in truly understanding AA's concepts. The way they are presented leaves them open to misinterpretation and controversy. Further, I do find AA's methodology suspect as I've mentioned before, my brother in law took his own life after practicing AA's principles for five years. Apparently his spiritual malady never successfully healed.

Knowledge is power,

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

If we are powerless, how do we make the necessary commitments to make change?When you say you're handing over your will to a power greater than yourself to address your addiction, what you're really saying is that you are rewiring your brain. It's not like your dropping off your brain at the cleaners to get the gunk out and picking it up when it's fixed.

Let me respond to this. This is form of surrender. The best meaning of surrender, I found in "Power of Now" by Echkart. He goes to great extent what happens internally (you are free to google the pdf version and read it). We break the resistance and then we are open for solution. And thats exactly what we do in the 12 steps, the reminder of the steps (after admitting that we are powerless/surrender). The will and life is thoughts and actions. For its taking action with a conscience state of mind. Why? We look at all the resentments, fear, relationships and sincerely start working towards overcoming those character defects. There is no magic wand in this. Eastern philosophies talk about consciencenous is GOD. Plain simple. And there is not religion here. Pure action. Because people don't surrender, they still resist and shut themselves from solution. They come up with all the arguements so they can keep drinking.

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 315

I said that many posts ago. Essentially this form is an aa meeting. Drunks sitting around sharing only it's not aa it is the ahc. Could not agree more. Unless we rewrite our brains to think different we are sure to drink again.

Just got back from a 30 year madallion. Great celibration for a woman who re wrote her brain. Very inspiring. For me regular meetings taking the chance to learn from people who have re wrote their brain helps a tone. I have another day sober. I attribute it to the fellowship of aa.

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 345

Hi Foxman and Jakelad,

I'm confused as to why you guys keep referring to will power as "the" method non AA'rs use of abstaining when those of us who are not involved with AA utilize a plethora of tools to avoid drinking. I just finished reading (again) the Twelve Steps and their very long explanations so that I could get a clear understanding as to the differential in methodologies. As I read, it became increasingly clear that what you're doing is essentially rewiring your brains just like we do. There is no magic bullet here in "working" the steps in that the commonalities are clear. We all admit we have a problem, that's why we are here. We take personal inventory to decide what we need to change, ask for help and seek out supports, meditate, and try to help others. Perhaps the one real difference is admitting powerlessness. If we are powerless, how do we make the necessary commitments to make change?When you say you're handing over your will to a power greater than yourself to address your addiction, what you're really saying is that you are rewiring your brain. It's not like your dropping off your brain at the cleaners to get the gunk out and picking it up when it's fixed.

The only real difference here is the venue and the names of the players. The outcome is the same. We learn to give alcohol the respect and space needed to keep us safe.

Please, if I'm misinterpreting something here I welcome enlightenment.

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

One of the key traits of the alcoholic is that, he/she cannot keep from drinking. They will come up with some form of execuse for why they started their last drinking spree, if you ask them after their last debacle. This is the blind spot that we have to focus on. Some people know that if they drink next time they will lose their family, house, car would still drink because of the obsession. The consequences don't deter them from drinking. Thats why the book says the alcoholic does not have a defence against the first drink. The defense comes by working the steps. The person has a psychic change.

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 315

For me will power has no standing affect over booze. If you can have two drinks and walk away every time, then you are much stronger then me. If you can just stop all together and put it behind you again much stronger then me or you didn't do the horrible things I did. Will power could not prevent me from not coming home for days at a time. Will power could not have stopped me from cheating on my wife 100 times. Will power could not stop me from spending mortage money on booze and losing my home. Will power got me to the point of attempting suicide. That where my will power got me. Said before, each has their own program for me without AA I would be dead so forgive me when I challenge negative views. If I was a new comer ready to die and someone told me to use my will power I would have shot myself on the spot. Thankfully I met a couple people that totally understood, because they went through it. They where alcoholic and soon I found that to be my problem.

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

Swig,

You will have to look at the state of mind of an person when he/she is not drinking. Is he/she able to lead a normal life, able to handle situations without blowing the gasket? Not one or two days but consistantly for a long period of time. Does he/she dive into depression? Then comes the mental obsession. Is he/she obsessing about drinking or not drinking? Sometimes the obsession will go away, but suddenly an urge would come up, out of the blue and he/she may be sitting in a bar chugging couple of drinks and then the craving kicks in and they give up the battle, telling themselves they will do better next time.

So the spiritual malady, the obsession and then the craving. Typically an alcoholic will show all these traits. One of the best examples you will find is the story of Jim the car salesman in the big book in chapter "More About Alcoholism". It will take may be 10-15 minutes to read the story you will see all three traits in it.

I let you draw the conclusion. If you don't have the spiritual malady and you think you don't obsess then I think you still have a choice in drink. Then you don't have to worry about the physical craving, because it not occur if you don't put the first drink in your body.

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 315

Ask yourself these questions. I answered yes to 17. 1 Do you lose time from work due to drinking? 2 Is drinking making your home life unhappy? 3 Do you drink because you are shy with other people? 4 Is drinking affecting your reputation? 5 Have you ever felt remorse after drinking? 6 Have you gotten into financial difficulties as a result of drinking? 7 Do you turn to lower companions and an inferior environment when drinking? 8 Does your drinking make you careless of your family's welfare? 9 Has your ambition decreased since drinking? 10 Do you crave a drink at a definite time daily? 11 Do you want a drink the next morning? 12 Does drinking cause you to have difficulty in sleeping? 13 Has your efficiency decreased since drinking? 14 Is drinking jeopardizing your job or business? 15 Do you drink to escape from worries or trouble? 16 Do you drink alone? 17 Have you ever had a complete loss of memory as a result of drinking? 18 Has your physician ever treated you for drinking? 19 Do you drink to build up your self-confidence? 20 Have you ever been to a hospital or institution on account of drinking?

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