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Just a question.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Dizzy.

And this is where the road forks. Since the same sensation can happen during pain or pleasure. Say on a roller coaster you get watery bowels and profuse sweating and increased heart rate. Maybe a whole lot more things. This is panic is it not? But you over ride these with the emotion pleasure so it doesn't turn to an attack for most people. Some go down the other fork in the road and they add fear to all the symptoms and it turns into an attack. Panic in itself is not a bad thing, it is what you do with it that can be.

Are you trying or wanting to get rid of the reaction from your excitement. I don't honestly know if it is possible. All I know is you can stop these sensations from becoming a panic attack by how you look at the situation. As for having a panic attack with out the sensations, I doubt it since they are a part of the fight or flight. But I think you can have an anxiety attack without the symptoms. This would be more like agitation. I also think you can have anxiety so bad you get dizzy and have headaches and confusion, restlessness and not have it turn into a panic attack if this is a normal part of your every day life. This would be more annoying than having the attack and getting it over with.

Are you saying you don't believe you have panic attacks just the symptoms from excitement?

But this is normal. It is normal to feel anger and get the symptoms. What is not normal is how far you take it. Interesting that anger is a way of relieving an attack. Not unexpectedly since anger is part of the fight half of fight or flight. And therefore with this reasoning fear should relieve the other half, but both only work if you know what you are angry at or afraid of.

So if you don't actually have panic attacks what are you going to do with the symptoms if they are bothering you?

You have brought up an interesting point here since we can not tell what another person feels and we are all different. Could it be that some people just get run away emotions and don't actually have panic attacks. For those of us that did get panic attacks they were too horrendous to mistake for anything else. There is no clear line between the two. But again CBT is meant to reduce the symptoms so we can live a comfortable and productive life. It should work for either condition and produce this effect.

Here for you,

Davit.

Again, does it matter, if CBT will take care of it.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 118

An accelerating of a feeling. The answer should be the same I would

I wonder what your take on this is:

Physical signs and symptoms of stress include:
Chest pain
Pounding heart
High blood pressure
Shortness of breath
Fatigue
Diminished or increased sex drive
Muscle aches, such as back and neck pain
Headaches
Dizziness
Clenched jaws and grinding teeth
Tight, dry or a feeling of a lump in your throat
Indigestion
Constipation or diarrhea
Increased perspiration
Stomach cramps
Weight gain or loss
Skin problems

I posted that a stress reaction may lead to an attack. You said that an attack is an accelerating of a feeling. The answer should be the same I would think. Do you believe a stress reaction of the above symptoms is an acceleration of feeling, remember stress can have good and bad situations. If i were to experience a stress reaction and have some of the symptoms above would it be an acceleration of feeling. Say you get angry this can be a very fast acceleration of feeling and a lot of the symptoms associated with anger closely resemble an attack. My final point is that when I get excited about something I have similar symptoms as from an "attack" but these symptoms are tension from stimulation verses tension from an "attack".

Dizzy

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1665

Hi Dizzy: I've been reading your posts. I see a great deal of progress in you! You are answering questions for yourself and helping others. Helping others - the passing on of wisdom and knowledge - is going to benefit you too. You've heard of "Fake it til you Make it"? These are not empty words. This is a way of practicing what you want for yourself. So if I walk down the street smiling, even if I have an unhappy life, I project positive to the outside world, what I want for myself. (I am responsible for my own emotions). Someone may smile back at me and make me feel happy to be alive at that moment. So I faked it for awhile, but I got a nice positive from someone who did make me feel happy and I was not faking happy then. The knowledge you are passing on will rub off on you too. You gotta believe! Cheering you on,

Your friend, Sunny

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Dizzy.

Whether it is technically a panic attack or anxiety attack or just an uncomfortable feeling attack, the key word is attack. An accelerating of a feeling. The answer should be the same I would think.

Awhile back and I won't tell you how far back I sat in my therapists office and told her I was living a lie. I said I could help others but not myself. I could see it was working for others but not for me. But it was, I just could not see it. She showed me my progress and told me that what I was doing was relating my sense of it not working to things I was picking up from others and relating to my past. Digging up my past and holding on to it subconsciously so I could relate to those around me. You will get this from your group. It does not mean you are not progressing, the fact you can help some one else and see it work says you are. Keep helping, it will help you immensely. It will help you build the confidence you need and help bury those negative core beliefs. And I did get through it, I am better and don't have attacks. Helping others can be hard but it builds confidence and is worth ever minute of your time. It will teach you to believe, something that I still some times have a hard time with. I think to a certain extent all of us beat ourselves up, I think it is part of the reason we are here.

You are right, you have to learn to believe in yourself. You have to do it on your own. But it can't hurt to say I believe in you and see your progress.

Here for you,

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 653

Hi Dizzy,

It is normal and common to do what you said- give support and encouragement to others and not ourselves. It's great that you are learning and able to help others! Be proud of yourself for that. You are doing well and show great insight. You are open-minded and take the time to think about the questions that are posed to you. You have many talents including emotional intelligence. Keep working at it!

Tiana, Health Educator

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 118

Davit

I think you we are mixing up words when I said panic attack. I really meant attack in fact I only had one symptom that was tension not one other thing that the site says is a panic attack. You are quite right when you say I do not believe in myself I have the knowledge but lack the wisdom to apply it to my self. In fact I was helping out a person in my support group and telling her everything you and I said, which helped her a lot. She was able to apply what I told her. If there is a fundamental core belief that is distorted in myself is the fact that I do not believe in myself. I have figured out why I can analyze other peoples work so easily and find all the mistakes and why I have such a hard time with my own work. The answer I have figured out is that I beat myself up for anything that I even may think I did wrong but actually did not. When you talk about core beliefs unfortunately this one starts at the age of 5. I can remmeber in wood working class when I was about 12 and the teacher would ask me what I thought about what I did I would reply its OK. Then he would give me a C. So I learned how to get an A was to saying I thought it was the greatest thing I ever done, then he would give me an A. However in the back of my mind I still felt it was ok so I was lying to get an A. You would think that I would have clued into the fact at how good my work was when he sent my stuff to be exhibited in Ottawa but I did not. However I get everything that I said to you know I do not think I can go back and change my feeling about things so I look for thing I do know and try to change my filter about them. I believe it is going to take a while to before I become confident in myself. When I use CBT I look for changes in thing I do differently now as compared to my old self. I believe I am trying to start at the beginning and build up some in myself. I am not looking for any priase in this post becuase I know it has to come from myself.

Dizzy

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Dizzy.

Remember three things you need to change negative to positive. Perception, attitude and belief.

You have the first. You can detect when something is false. But you are lacking the other two. You have a foot each in two different worlds. And finally you do not believe strongly enough in what you know or yourself. Your last line says it all.

It was only panic, (a normal reaction) you made it an attack. Why could you not believe this and keep it from becoming an attack? You woke with a clear mind, when you started to panic why could you not go back to the clear mind instead of the attack? You did have the two options.

Here for you,

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 118

Now that what I have said has been out there I am going to throw a curve ball according to CBT, none of what I said about stress and resiliency really matters for panic attacks. According to CBT the main problem about people with panic attack disorder is that, we are afraid of the sensation of fear. The one and only question you have to answer is the anxiety or worry about having an attack worse than the actual attack. We tend to believe that in fact the attack is worse because when we look at it through our filters usually anxiety we tend to believe the anxious thought more. That is why a catastrophic thought seems more likely because you are already anxious and you are looking for the any signs of the bad outcome. If you start a speech and think, you are going to blow it you start looking for signs such as a person rolling their eyes or someone falling asleep. This is where you have to change your view of the sensations in your body, by creating a pounding heart by running on the spot you see that it is not something to be feared. Then the final step would be to try to get you to see as other people do, to like the thrill of fear. For example, when as the web site states, people go onto roller coasters they enjoy the sensation or thrill of fear. If we could switch your thinking and find this thrill of fear and I am not talking about a panic attack, then as Davit said we would be like other people who do not have an attack. From my experience, I can remember this playing out in my head when I was watching Friends the TV show. Phoebe was in Monica apartment, bent over, and got up fast and said whoa I just got a head rush, and precede to do it again because she supposedly liked the sensation. At that time which was a while ago this is where Phoebe and I parted I could not understand at the time how anyone could enjoy that sensation. To me it like having the sensation of being dizzy, and I think from my nickname you may have gathered that I have an aversion to that sensation or did. Personally, I think that what I wrote today and before, today’s posts are both accurate, and are the places we should be looking. How do I put the post-together well for me after an attack the sensations tend to stick around for a long time. This is where I get into stress resiliency because I think negative thoughts most of the day about my sensation and how they affect me. This is the inner pain I talked about if I were to detach myself from the sensation and become an observer of them rather than reacting to them or worse relating to them then I destroy the effect of the panic attack. Einstein said that when you put the “me” into suffering you become alone isolated because it is your suffering and only yours. Now what I have learned in my religion class in university, that is that true love is detachment from a person, why because you trust them attachment is not trusting or just lust. Show to show yourself some love detach from the sensation that bother you the most in this way you are trusting your body to work things out without adding additional suffering from the mind. After all this supposed insight, you would think I have ever thing figured out, well I do not. However, I will share with you something neat that happened this morning I woke up and my mind was clear and I started thinking I have a problem and then I remembered oh it is panic attack, then I proceeded to have one.

Dizzy

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 659

Dizzy,

Very helpful and very well said..

Red.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 653

This is very interesting Dizzy!

Tiana, Health Educator

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