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12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 5

Davit, I like that you said "Even reading posts on this site can increase a tendency to panic." What I feel about that very statement is that we have a tendency to relate to others, we have a tendency to draw lines where there are none. We fit in puzzle pieces for our gaps with others' information. I can read a post, and if I see even 1 symptom or feeling is the same as someone else's , I start to fill in my puzzle gaps with their information. And then I start to panic. Also, as we all know, there are others who have it worse than we do. And so when we read their stories, we tend to think right away, "I feel like this already, what if it gets so bad I end up "like them"?" What a terrible way to feel. And that starts the panic overload. I dont have the answers on how to stop that from happening. I just know it happens to me, and I have to breathe my way out of the tunnel.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Oxycodone has panic like symptoms on withdrawal but should only last two days. That small of a dose of Ativan that far apart will not cause rebound. Sounds more just like panic attacks.

It is possible that the Oxycodone caused dormant panic to now exist. Postnatal can do this also as can a number of things. The Ativan would have had to be consistent over that month for you to get withdrawal rebound.

Even reading posts on this site can increase a tendency to panic. It could just be anxiety but you do want to make sure it isn't Physical to be on the safe side.

Davit.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 21

Hi all,

just curious about your experiences with ativan which is the medication i was prescribed a while ago for my panic attacks.

I think some of the problems I've been having may be due to withdrawing from the ativan (as I refuse taking one every day, even at the very low dose of .5 mg) as well as from oxycodone (prescribed to me for chest pain). The problems I have in mind: pins and needles in my body, muscle aches, headaches, chest pain, mild nausea, weakness in arms and legs. These are all coming and going - I never know waking up what the day will bring, and I did not have these problems prior to taking either one of these pills. I did have panic attacks (the racing heart, the hyperventilation, the shortness of breath etc,) but none of the symptoms I listed above.

I realize I only took oxycodone for 2 weeks or so and ativan for a bit over a month as needed, still I am wondering...

What have your experiences been like?!

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 373

Hi! I found this post because I was searching the messages for Ativan which is what I just had to take for a panic attack that had "blossomed". I like the support that the two of you are giving each other, Davit and Heatlthy Self. I also agree that this stinks. In fact, that is something that my therapist suggests I consider when I notice that I might be on the verge of an attack. I am to say "This is a panic attack. It is very annoying. It will not kill me". Most days this helps and I move on. Today I got a panic attack in the car so I really had to concentrate on driving safely, instead of working on my inner thoughts and on relaxing. So, today was a yucky set back but I am hopeful that I will read one of your successful day stories and I will be renewed in my resolve to get better. Best wishes!

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

healthyself

My therapist thought I should go back to school instead of picking her brain but although I thought about it I really just want to garden in summer and do woodwork in winter. But I did think about it. I have a good personal knowledge base, based on my own experience. I've been on almost every one of the different classes of drugs. I've been in the psych ward. I've been suicidal. But the worst was two solid years of panic attacks every night at around two in the morning. I was scared to sleep, even during the day. Medication didn't help. SSRIs made me sick. On top of everything else I had staph infection from knee replacements so I was spending a lot of time in hospitals. Four to six months at a time some times. Three times max. dose of IV antibiotics. Later when I could walk again I was doing them at home four to six times a day. Very little sleep and anxiety and panic a side effect from the antibiotics. But I have a very good therapist that kept me alive and fed me massive amounts of information. Some I will never use but found interesting. There are actually people worse than I was but not many leave the hospital. SO. CBT works, I'm proof of that.

As for journaling. I would say if you are serious you need two. one is an every day account with colour coded words like medication, panic, anxiety, etc. so you can see at a glance how you are doing. The other journal is one you do during a panic attack. It is interesting because during a full blown panic attack the confusion is so bad it is almost impossible to do. Nothing works, your hands and your mind. But it shows you that your thought is not rational and this breaks the hold it has. As you manage to write/type dictate, what ever the first thing you notice is your thought is not logical. What you are thinking is distorted and because of this the Fight or flight thinks it has a reason to stay active. But because you can now see it is illogical it now has a reason to shut down. And you have a reason now for why it happened and you can re read it and discard it instead of dwelling on the fact it happened instead of reasoning why. The first step in telling it to get lost.

Further into the program you will learn why it happens but first you need to have coping and relaxation techniques in place because some of the information can cause anxiety.

But again I have to say, if you stick with it it really does work. I am no longer on long term medication although I do have valium and Trimipramine in my drug collection but only use them when I am extremely tired and I let my guard down. Trimipramine works on Dopamine and when levels get out of whack it should be treated. SSRIs work on seratonine and the same applies. Mood can effect these so CBT can reduce the need for them.

Davit.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 13

Davit, I sincerely hope you will come out of retirement and open up a little office to help fellow anxiety sufferers.... seriously. What a gift you have.

I am loving the phrase, "tick on my ass-this will pass" Cracks me up! Journal open and ready to write.... i did some in the beginning and it tapered off over time.... back to it. I do have a question about journalling. Do you do it when you are panicking? Or just when ever you notice anxious thoughts, totally relaxed times... are the anxious thought forms part of that journalling or not? Can you tell I like the details??? Part of the problem I suppose!

Thanks again, really consider putting up a shingle.

HealThySelf

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Healthyself.

I have Valium. I like it because it is a muscle relaxant also. Good for the tension that comes with or before panic. I could not taper off Ativan because you have to taper off from a medication that lasts at least a whole day. And you taper off different than you would from other meds such as morphine. This will seem strange maybe but what you are trying to do is reduce the need not the effect because what you have with long term use is dependance. What you do is take the dose per day that you need to get an effect and extend the time period between doses as long as you can and then take the full dose again. This way you get effect instead of a craving that drives you to take small ineffectual doses and keep you on it. In fact reducing the amount each day only increases the number of rebounds and makes you worse. Do the relaxation and coping parts of the program to be able to extend the period between doses. You know it is working when you start to forget to take it and one day you realize you haven't taken any for a while. Don't try to stop cold turkey, even then. Keep it with you, just don't take it. After a while you won't likely remember where you are keeping it. Every so often I come across little bottles of Ativan and it makes me smile.

Speaking of being a buffalo. Since we know that what keeps panic attacks going is focusing on them trying to find the logic in something without any the best way to treat them is the buffalo method. Stand firm, let them do their best and soon they will pass. (just a tick on my ass, it will pass) The best way to do this is with journaling. Writing down what you feel and what is happening will ground you in reality because when you do this the first thing you notice is the confusion and unreality of what you are thinking. And since the fight or flight syndrome needs a reason to be there or to shut down it can't till it has one. Journaling gives it that reason. As you get farther down the road you can say "oh there you are again, go away, there is no need for you". This is part of the CBT process of reprogramming thought patterns that have become negative. Curing panic attacks is as simple as changing negative to positive but it can be the hardest simple thing you will ever do. It does work though.

Writing down posts is supposed to make you anxious because it draws attention to it. It is a form of exposure.

Davit.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 13

Davit, I am loving the information. I appreciate it and thank you. It is comforting to hear someone further along this long and winding road. I am doing the work. No panic attack today. But I do feel more anxious just writing all the anxious thoughts down! Ha! Darkest before the dawn, no pain no gain?? Well whatever it is I am a Buffalo and I see a storm coming.... i think I'll just run right into it! See what's on the other side.... it's gotta beat the crap out of what I have been living with. I have xanax in the cupboard.... did you taper your ativan and use the xanax??? Funny you did the sublingual route.... that is the only way I do it. The things we come up with eh?

Heal Thy Self

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

One more comment. Medication is only a bandaid it cures nothing. When you quit it the problem comes back. CBT which is a changing of the condition to something more in control and positive does. But if you stop medication before doing CBT then the anxiety and confusion that come back will make it hard if not impossible to do. SSRIs Stabilize the brain so that information can be properly absorbed. Tricyclics (mood stabilizers) Stop the ups and downs so that your day smoothes out and you can stay on the path. Benzo's stop the panic that makes you say why bother. But only CBT will straighten out the problem and let you live a normal life. Some people never get off medication because it is an easy out. CBT does take work, but it also does work. Some people get by with a combination of both and I feel this is because a lot of CBT seems illogical to them or they are on the wrong side of the fine line that is meaning. Some things don't quite mean what they seem. You will find this in exposure and core beliefs mostly.

Davit.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

healthyself.

I was on max dose (4mg) a day for four years because no one told me not to be and the doctors just kept filling the prescription. Now if you look at the net the half life is longer than it really is. What drug company is going to tell you there is a problem with their drug. They do tell you it should not be used for more than a month knowing full well you will. WTH I did. The truth is that it has about a one hour half life and is out of your system in about four. It doesn't take much math to realize it won't cover you for twenty four. So you get rebound. Ups and downs or more appropriate downs and ups. They get worse as you adjust to the medication and it has less effect. Half a mg to sleep is probably no problem because the rebound up will happen while you are asleep and you will only have a slight agitation in the morning which relaxation techniques should handle. But that is not usually why people are on it. I mean it works and works fast if it is sublingual. Now the rest of this is from my therapist who will not recommend it to anyone. There are safer things.

Over time Ativan shuts down all pathways in your brain except the one it controls. Normally you have a lot more information enter than you absorb. Sensors at each synapse decide if what is entering is worth passing on by a process of previous acceptance with the odd random thing and in the case of necessity such as an emergency almost every thing. Happens too during panic. So now Ativan has everything shut down except the pathway it controls. (this happens over time.) One of two things happen when it wears off. The gate is wide open and information floods in uncontrolled giving you a feeling of something is getting me but I don't know what. Or the gate stays closed giving you a feeling of not being there. On the outside looking in.

To avoid the rebound and to be able to taper off you need a Benzo with a longer half life like valium or Xanax or one of the others designed to handle your type of anxiety. They do differ slightly and some cover more than one thing. More on this later if you want. More on how to taper off also. And why it is different than other meds.

Davit. Who types so slow he is going to get logged out.

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