Seems like forever

Hi Desire You sound as lost as I've been. I'm coming to the realization that my periods of depression coincide with my being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Not so much trapped as frozen -- there are choices, but they are really tough or scary ones. I hear you saying that you're facing a few of those: what to do about your son that will satisfy your husband? Do you remain loyal to your company and take your project through to failure or do you cut your losses and find a new job? Tough and scary. Depression from overwhelm, and it's so difficult to get through overwhelm by yourself. I've found the structure of this program really helps -- hopefully you will too. All the best

Why does negative self talk feel comforting?

Hi Ava I hope that your brother's better -- I'm so sorry that he (and you) had to go through such pain, but thank you for sharing because it made me think more about the drastic methods we come up with to comfort ourselves and avoid our pain. Are the negative scripts an addiction like cutting or alcohol or drugs, and is it helpful to think of it that way? The Victim is the archetype that I'm struggling with. Myss calls the Victim the Protector of Self-Esteem -- on it's Light side it notices when we are potentially going to be taken advantage of or victimized and encourages us to be assertive and stand up for ourselves. The Shadow side notices and encourages opportunities to play the victim so that we can get pity or sympathy or an excuse for our lack of self-esteem. I'm wallowing on the Shadow side (though I've isolated myself so much that there isn't really anyone to notice and give me pity and sympathy, so I even have to do [b]that[/b] myself -- sad, isn't it? (sniff, sigh) If I try to tie these together somehow... am I addicted to the thoughts and scripts that confirm that I am pitiable? Certainly being assertive creates an often huge amount of anxiety, while the chance to do things that will allow me to bring out my negative scripts feels almost seductive and giving in is definitely a relief/release, if only temporarily. Does framing it like this help? I'm not sure that it would change my approach, though I suppose it emphasizes the strength of the bond. Every habit that we develop gives us some sort of benefit regardless of costs, otherwise we wouldn't keep doing it. Sorry, Ava, I'm all over the place in this post. I'm also curious when you said that the world around you doesn't make sense to you. You wrote earlier that sometimes your world is filled with criticism and rejection and everyone seeing you in a bad light -- is that the reality you are trying to reconcile with? Or is it a different one that doesn't make sense? I'm going to stop writing now (whew!) :)

Hoping for support

Hi jbarn1 There seem to be lots of people here who have not-so-supportive people around them. I've been struggling with my depression for a long time too, and I'm very good at putting on the happy face -- in particular for my children, and my mother who just lost my dad... I don't want them worrying and I don't know how they could help me anyway. I think it's hard for people who haven't experienced depression to understand why we can't just snap out of it, unless they educate themselves and really want to understand. Everyone is different, but I've found this program to be more helpful than the medications or therapists (and the meds can be very expensive if they haven't come out in generic). Hopefully you will too. There's lots of good information for your husband too -- perhaps he'll be able to find ways he can be more supportive. In the meantime, the discussions can be pretty quiet, but if you call out, it's a very supportive group. :)

slacking

Hi chula The goals sound great to me -- I've got your #3 on my goal list as well. The treatment plan is where you get more specific -- break each goal down into a series of progressive steps or a group of behaviours/activities, and put a timeframe around them. For my Get fit and exercising goal, for example, I've set a timeframe of the end of June and broken it down into 1) get to bed by 10pm at least 4 nights a week 2) rejoin and participate in my local bike club 3) yoga 20 mins at least 5 mornings a week 4) vitamins and EFA daily 5) limit wine-drinking to 2 nights a week. They're a few simple, achievable things that, if I could get them into habit, would really make a difference, I think. For your first goal, I'd keep it down to just a couple of things and shorten your timeframe. That way you can both see progress more quickly. You may want to include your gf in selecting the behaviours/activities for this one, since an indicator of your success will be that she feels more openly communicated with. Hope this helps, and good luck :)

slacking

Hey Chula -- I'm not planning on giving up alcohol anytime soon either! However, for me, even one glass of wine with dinner will give me a restless night's sleep, and three glasses will make me feel hungover the next day. I'm blaming my medication rather than my age :) A lot of the time I'm only pouring myself a glass out of habit than because I would enjoy it -- similar to staying up past 10:00 most nights to watch each and every version of CSI and Law & Order when a lot of the time they are re-runs! So limiting myself to wine 2 nights a week and turning the tv off at 10:00 at least 4 nights a week really won't cut into my fun factor, and I'm thinking that those actions may actually make those other 2 or 3 nights a week more enjoyable because I'll be feeling better physically and I'll have consciously have taken some control back over my life. Long response to a short comment, but I think it's really important to select the actions that are most relevant to ourselves and our goals. If your alcohol consumption isn't a key issue for you, then stop trying to give it up, and focus on the few actions that 1) will have the most impact on your goals and 2) you are actually willing to commit to in a conscious and concrete way. My final comment: "I'll try" is one of those red flag phrases of something you don't really want to do or are unable to do but are unwilling to admit it. If you hear yourself saying it, you may want to re-evaluate your goal or re-jig it to be something that allows you to say I can or I will. There are so many things that we could be doing to improve ourselves and our lives -- "trying" to do too many of them reduces the likelihood that we'll be successful with any of them.

a prescription for action

I finally got in to see the sleep doctor yesterday and one of his questions was about my exercise routine -- regular aerobic exercise being good for healthy sleep. My response to him was that it's on my to-do list... never seem to have the time... my schedule is irregular, so it's hard to remember... and various other excuses. He asks me, do I want to exercise regularly? Yes, I say. But I don't? No, I say. Hmmm. Do I want to take my medication? No, I say. I don't find it's helping, etc. But I take it? Yes, I say. My GP believes I need it. You'll guess what came next -- he actually wrote "15 minute walk, once a day, take with water" down on a piece of paper and handed to me. Smartass. But he does have a point...

Why does negative self talk feel comforting?

Ava You're offering a lot of value to me. I've seen some of your other posts as well -- your support is caring, sensitive and considered, and you offer it readily and with a balancing sense of humour. Even if it's true that you offer nothing else of value to others outside of work, you give a great deal here to people when they need it most so don't sell yourself short. Some people find it easy to juggle all aspects of their life at the same time -- successful at work, active social life, confident and happy children, give back to the community, always relaxed and good-natured, etc. And then there are the rest of us. Welcome :) You're obviously an intelligent person, and you've been on this site for awhile, so I know that you hear each and every cognitive distortion. Comfortable as it is to just believe your drill sergeant, have you tested any of the distortions? I'm stuck in my homework at the Experimenting on my Negative Thoughts part. I say stuck, when I really should say resisting. I've focused in on a few, almost to the exclusion of others, but they are emotionally charged and I'm avoiding standing up to them. I can classify the distortions, I've examined the evidence, etc, and, intellectually, I know that they are distortions. But what if testing them shows that they aren't? It's family stuff, and my family is so important to me that I would rather do my ostrich thing than face that possibility. Somehow, I think that if I keep my thoughts in my head, to myself, then I can safely counter them with my intellectual thinking. But I know that as long as I keep them inside, they will continue to influence my mood and behaviour. I wonder how long a real ostrich can keep its head in the sand for... I've just remembered the Box exercise for managing anxiety/stress, so I will box these few thoughts up, lock it, and put it aside for the time being while I test some of my less emotionally-charged thoughts. Like a traffic jam -- the other cars can't move forward until the crashed and burning vehicles are towed away :) So who is your drill sergeant? He/she/it wasn't always inside your head, even if you've internalized it now. It's very true that people will return to childhood comforts when they need too, as destructive as those comforts may be. Chi

new- my story

Oh mugs, I can't even begin to imagine the shock and horror you must be feeling! The only suggestion that I can think to offer you is to compartmentalize. If you can, take all of your thoughts and concerns about your relationship and your worthiness to exist and put them aside to think about later. They aren't going to go anywhere (unfortunately). And the girl's family will get help and support, don't worry about that. You may find yourself being involved with the family, since you witnessed the accident, but they will be getting lots of other support as well. Focus your energy on getting yourself and the kids through this tragic experience. Sending you strength and compassion...

a prescription for action

Thanks for the suggestions and, yes, this doctor does seem to be someone who is actually listening and giving a thought to how he can help me (or get me helping myself) rather than just how he can get me out of his office most quickly. I don't think I've ever been so creative in my life than I am in creating excuses for myself for 'not doing'. I'm usually such an optimist, and I am very much so with other people, but for myself I seem to have a bottomless pool of reasons why I can't do what I really want to do. Structure and rewards, and perhaps putting my fingers in my ears singing "la lela lela...I'm not listening... la lela lela" when the pessimism and negativity start to badger and tempt, as combating each excuse gets exhausting :)

apologizing/contagious depression

I laughed, in a shake-my-head-with-recognition kind of way, when I read your post, crescentdave. Seeing it in writing really highlights the absurdity of the spirals we put ourselves into, don't you think? We take on responsibility for all the things that go wrong around us, whether or not we have contributed to them in any way, so that we feel (at times enormous) guilt and shame. And then we berate ourselves for being so self-centred and insensitive, without, of course, actually letting go of any of the responsibility for the original issue. Heaping piles and piles and piles of guilt, shame, remorse and then, in my case I don't know about yours, self-pity. Would it work better if we switched the order of those? Would calling ourselves egotistical first (perhaps in more positive terms :)) make it more difficult to then shoulder all the blame? I've been running a new mantra through my head "It's not all about me, it's not all about me..." which helps me with keeping perspective and empathy when, for example, a friend is upset about some unknown thing or my boss is irritable and curt with me. Not so helpful, perhaps, for when I really need to stand up assertively for myself, selfish or not.