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association


12 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Red 

There is a difference between blocking a traumatic memory with a different one and Dissociation. In Dissociation there is a hole where the memory should be and this hole is what causes the pain, whether it is in the form of depression or panic. It helps if the person can go back to the traumatic moment and relive it but with what ever it takes to remember it without going into dissociation. This way when thoughts of the traumatic event comes up there is something in the memory to dictate the reaction to the thought of the traumatic situation instead of an empty hole that allows random thought or negative thought to fill it. In the case of rape and child abuse it is usually the thought "it was not my fault" that is used to fill that hole. Some times the trauma is too bad to be able to work on the thought and then blocking the thought that opens this has to be done by finding ways to not go there. Do you understand how the panic triangle works. Understanding how it works explains a lot of the reasons for panic or emotions like anger and sadness. It will do little for MDD though, that one needs medication in most cases to stop the person from opening the trigger. Understanding why Dissociation happens can take a lot of the pain and fear out of it when it happens. Knowledge is power. The thought corner is governed by previous actions in memory as thoughts. These can be recent or not, core beliefs or subconscious memories, but can not be Dissociated memories because they are stored where they are not accessible. Attempting to leaves a hole of confusion like the confusion from a panic attack. The fear is the same as the fear during a panic attack. Dissociation is a survival skill in mild doses, in major doses it is the same pain and fear as a panic attack. Something no one but that person can feel.

I wish I had not started this thread since dissociation is best explained and helped by a therapist and since it is not something regular CBT will cure although it will help. The information is all on the internet anyway but some of it is in doctor speak and has to be translated. 

Also in the form of Dissociation that day dreaming or ignoring takes there is loss of memory but that period is filled with day dreaming or some other memory so although the loss of memory is annoying there is no hole or confusion to cause panic, unless it is done often enough to have the action the cause of the anxiety that causes the panic. This is going around the panic triangle in a different direction but still using all three corners since a person has no choice. You can not use just two.

Davit.

12 years ago 0 2508 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
This thread topic reminds me of post traumatic stress disorder..It also reminds of memories that are to painful to remember. I think the mind is marvelous thing and protects us from some of these memories. It puts a lid on them and locks the monsters in the box where they belong..There are things and details that I don't want to remember about my past and in My case I plan on leaving them alone. I find that association can be triggered by many things for me..So for now I am trying to concentrate on the positive memories and working on adding more positives to my life and mind to replace the negative ones with. Of course this is just me remember..
Pleasant activities helped me a lot before and I have been neglecting this aspect of my life lately. It's time to start doing them again...I came back to the site not knowing why I was feeling so bad lately...Being here again has refreshed my memory and I think I am starting to figure it out again...I guess I did need a tune up..I am really glad I logged in again...
 
Red....
12 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Vincenza.

That was an internet therapist, I haven't talked to mine yet. I believe she meant by treating the trauma that a person could remove the block or conditions that cause any related thought to get compartmentalized in these spots that are not accessible due to the fact that they have no attachment to normal memory. In that case any new thought would go into normal memory and be accessible. It sound feasible if trauma is the cause. But how do you treat the trauma was not explained. I can see how this could work. I have one and only one piece of lost memory due to trauma. What people used to call a nervous breakdown and by convincing myself that it was not my fault I've been able to get pieces of that day back. It was 40 years ago so even if it was in normal memory it might be hard to bring up. It is nice though to be able to fill in part of it. Interesting thing is that I had to get angry with myself to get rid of the "my fault" block. It wasn't my fault, I just felt it was. Still some embarrassment and shame there but that too shouldn't be, it just is. Working on getting rid of that too.
Maybe thought exposure to the trauma would give closure similar to visiting the grave of a missed loved one. Maybe acceptance could remove the block. Then maybe the missed day or days could be fed back into normal memory where they would become part of the normal thoughts a person runs through in the trip between the three corners of the triangle and there could be a happy outcome instead of a lost feeling that seems to get filled with emotions like sad and anger or panic.
I don't think the missing thought would have to be happy even, they just need to be there. I think attitude can deal with how you deal with them.

Interesting thing about dissociation is that in mild forms we all do it and even to some extent use it to deal with anxiety, examples are day dreaming and multitasking. Even doodling. But I think ~m was more concerned with clinical dissociation. The kind that seems to come out of the blue. I think the degree is directly related to the degree of trauma. The type of trauma too.
In some cases there need be no fault it just has to be more than the emotions can handle. In the one case of someone else's trauma that I know of there is a feeling of fault and guilt that should not be there. I feel that these feelings of fault and guilt and the anger of not being able to deal with it pushed the trauma into dissociation. If circumstances had of been different there might just have been extreme sadness. 

Dissociation is interesting and some people have developed multiple personalities to deal with the trauma. Interesting but not relevant to this site I think. 
On the subject of guilt and dissociation it has been noted that in many rape cases there is a false feeling of guilt that should not be there. Rape and child abuse being major reasons for dissociation along with torture. And in these cases there is a lot of false feeling of fault. So maybe dealing with the false feeling of fault is the way to deal with the trauma. Circles within circle. Where to start.

Davit. 

Still CBT should be able to deal with the reaction to the empty spot caused by dissociation making it bi-passable if it can't be cured.
12 years ago 0 376 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Davit, I asked the question about dissociation because you mentioned it happening to you once at work.  I think most people dissociate to some degree every once and awhile.  The best example is commuting over the same road day after day and then one day you can remember leaving and remember arriving, but have absolutely no memory of the drive itself.  An alcohol induced black out is much the same.  Sunny's example about her memories surrounding the brothers' birthdays is not surprising either... some stuff is just too painful to allow up front.  Like you said, the brain is an amazing thing....  
12 years ago 0 1853 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Davit,
 
What does your therapist mean by relearning by treating the trauma?  Did she give you any more guidance on this?
 


Vincenza, Health Educator
12 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Okay, I found one therapist that says there is treatment and also the missing parts can be relearned by treating the trauma and feeding the missing parts back in. Done under therapy of course, she wants to be paid. A person could try it on their own. She says it is a survival technique to survive the trauma at the time so not relevant now. So it should be curable. I don't know, it depends on what is keeping the traumatic event in force. Maybe, maybe not. One can only try. Guilt comes into play here when it comes to keeping trauma in force, imagined or not.

Davit  who is bored tonight.
12 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
And they are just thoughts and ideas although most are personal experience. This one is based on scientific research, and may not be relevant in the future as the mind unlocks it's secrets. 
Amazing thing the mind, we only use a fraction of it's capacity yet manage to mess that up.

Like I say, it is only information not instruction. And this one was only babbling since CBT can be done with only instruction and no information. I just found for me it was easier with some information and reasons why.

Davit.
12 years ago 0 12049 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Very thought provoking.
 
Please continue to share your thoughts, experiences and ideas with us.

 

Josie, Health Educator
12 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
sunny

I wonder if you brother was to show you pictures and tell you in detail about the birthdays if since time has gone by you would remember them or if due to the trauma you would compartmentalize these thoughts where they too would not be accessible.

You know that was probably a survival thing and might no longer be necessary.
It would also be interesting to see if it could open these blocked memories by making the chemicals necessary for access available. 
Food for thought, I was only babbling on a rainy day, I did not expect it to go here. 

Davit.
12 years ago 0 1665 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
How come I can't remember birthdays in my family?  What is stopping the memory?  Trauma maybe.  My two brothers died together in a boating accident - no more birthdays, no more happy holidays, no more celebrating for years.  I wiped out the past ones maybe because it was too painful to think about, I don't know.  My brother tells me there were birthday cakes and candles but I can't see anything.  I try and remember and come up blank.  There is no panic, just a big mystery to me.
 
Sunny

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