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12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 542

Thank you Davit for you're post. I hope you got the bear from you're apple tree! yikes! you are brave to face a bear. I would of wrote right back, women problem and a bad one so I was in bed most of the day from being up all night in pain, I am not proud of that but sometimes rest is all that helps. I read you're post a few times and I think I am grasping what you mean.

You are right its mostly about my negative thinking, that coupled with fear is what I believe drove me to this meltdown. That is the problem I am having with the CBT and I think you see that I am trying SO hard to think positive and that is what I am having problems doing, those darned negative thoughts keep coming and coming and I try to counter them but its hard especially when I feel I am surrounded by negativity. All my life people have told me how bad I am and I guess its now manifesting itself and turning fifty and health problems caused the fear which in turn caused the negativity, I see now what an awful vicious cycle it is, like a merry-go-round that keeps spinning and you just so much want to jump the heck off it.

Perhaps its going to take more time to think positive after years and years of negative. The panic attacks have decreased and I am so grateful but now I have to rid myself of the anxiety and depression, sometimes I think the panic was "masking" the depression but the fear was there also, CBT has to work, I really have no other alternative, I cannot take the SSRI's because they made me so ill and the thought of living like this would be unbearable, for months I thought I was being punished, I do not think that anymore, this is a condition, a chemical imbalance and nobodys fault and if you and Sunny and Hugs and all the rest can recover I hope I can too. Maybe its just going to take more time and practice, if I could let go of the worry and fear I think I would be halfway there. I do know I want to get better and live and not be like this anymore, I want to be my own safe person and not so scared all the time, life is short and I am wasting it hiding in my home not going out and hiding from people. I dont know exactly how I am going to recover only that I so want to and I will do anything I can to get well again.

I want to join the land of the living again. I will use you're tips and advice on CBT and positive thinking, I hear its got a great track record and I want to do it and do it right. Thank you Davit you're post helped me.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Had to cut that short and post, there is a bear in one of my apple trees. It was a rather long post and I did not want to lose it.

Read it first.

Continuing on from it. It may seem like all that is happening around you is the problem, but it isn't. Every situation has to go through "thought" And there is where you can make it better or worse. If something does not go right or is down right bad you can still think positive toward it. "it happened, I can't change it but I don't have to think on it". Next thought, that one is done, let it go. See with that you have just built a positive thought and buried a negative one. This is CBT.

"No one understands me or what I'm going through" So what. (you can't change that right now)

Do you understand what you are going through and why? If not how will you change it. More positive thought there. "why is this happening to me and not others?" Over time you have let negative thoughts influence you. Remember the panic triangle. It can start anywhere. It can start with "thought" which will influence the the situation and panic or mostly the degree in the case of panic. Change your thoughts and you change the reason for the situation and panic.

Did I say any of this is easy? No I did not. It is hard because it took a while to get there and now you are supposed to change that conditioning? Yes you are. You have to. You can not be part negative and part positive unless you want to take a very long time. The negative will keep eroding all the positive you do.

Okay this is getting too deep and too far ahead. Start with relaxation skills and do the program. Sunny can help if you ask her. She has a lot of experience with relaxation techniques. Sorry sunny, I'm volunteering you :-)

And again I have to remind everyone, that this is just my personal experience and information from a reliable source. It is not instruction. Do the program, it is. I'm just here for support, I just have a weird way of doing it.

Davit.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Debora.

There are people who do not get better with CBT. That is a fact. But there are reasons. The biggest reason is not because they can't. It is not Bipolar, with medication they can achieve balance and do the CBT. It is not clinical depression, same thing. It is one of two things. Not understanding. We are here to help with that but you have to tell us what you don't understand.

But the worst reason is not trying because it is hard and painful.

It is difficult. And there is no fixed formula. Each person is different. Basically CBT is the same for everyone, how you do it is different. The areas you need to work on can be very different from others here. Some parts of the course you will have to do over and over. It is a twelve week course. But that is only the start. You have to put it into practice and keep doing it forever. You will over time do this unconsciously and not even notice you are doing it.

The whole process is about changing thought. Thinking positive instead of negative. You have a lot of negative thought. It would do you no good for me to sugar coat it so I won't. This is a good place to vent and it is encouraged. Holding it in is not good. But you need to make use of the vent. You need to look at the negativity in it and try to change it a bit at the end of the next vent. Negative breeds negative, positive buries it. Try to find something good in everything you do and everything that happens around you. Sunny has a saying that I use. "the past is in the past you can not change it only learn from it". Learn to let go of the past. Don't dwell on it you can not change it and it will do you know good to think about it. Start each day new. What happened yesterday is no longer important. Another part of the saying goes like this, "the future doesn't count because you don't know what it will be". Only right now matters.

Don't worry about how long CBT takes, it is different for everyone. Don't worry about if you will get better or when. Today is what counts. How can you make today better. Tomorrow today will be yesterday so if it was not that good it doesn't count. When tomorrow is today make it as good as you can.

Davit.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

No one who does not go through this can totally understand this but they don't have to. All they need to know is that it is a condition and that you have it. It really does exist.

Davit.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 542

Yes perhaps that would help Vincenzia if he looked at it and it would make him hopeful for help. Thank you

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1853

Hi Zen,

I'm sorry to hear that your husband is not more understanding of what you go through. I wonder if you walk him through the Panic Center website, show him the forums and read through some of the posts, if that will help him better appreciate your experience of panic & anxiety. Reading others' experiences with similar symptoms can be effective.

Vincenza, Health Educator

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 542

Thank you Sunny and Davit, I am having a very very bad day today I just cried for about an hour, I feel so helpless and hopeless, the body symptoms today are horrible, dizziness nausea and cramping and this horrible depression I just want to crawl into bed and never come out! and I know that is the worst thing I can do. I cannot take the antidepressants to feel better so all I have left is CBT and I know this sounds terrible but what if it does not work? do I just feel so sick and bad the rest of my short life? I am trying SO hard to think positive and feel better, but if everyday you are sick and tired how do you fell positive? I know I am very nervous about seeing a new therapist, I have had two very bad unhelpful experiences, I feel very angry at this man I have seen for almost nine months, he must have seen he was not helping me and instead of just telling me he could not help me he kept seeing me for the money and now has caused my husband to be very angry, I feel betrayed and used, I myself could not in good consience take someones money if I knew I could not help them, have I just wasted nine months of my life? I have prayed to God to please just let me feel a little better so I can function and not feel so sick everyday, I foolishly thought when the panic's decreased the depression would let up but that has not happened, in fact the saddness feels worse, at least panic only lasts 15 or 20 minutes this sadness lasts all day and night, they are both bad I guess panic or depression and I know they go together most of the time, without antidepressants I know I have to work harder.

How long does it take CBT to work? should I have noticed an improvement? maybe I am not grasping it correctly or doing it right? I hear its excellent, I cant be the one it does not work for can I? I am sorry I sound in such a bad way, the longer this goes on the more hopeless I feel, my husband says "you're fifty its normal to feel achy sick and not as healthy" but I have seen many many people older than me that are functioning and healthy and alive. I just wish I could of gotten help months ago before it got so severe. Please forgive me its just a bad day hopefully tommorow will be better, thats what I keep telling myself, life is too short to feel sick miserable and hopeless everyday, with God and this program I hope I can recover.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Debora

In the panic triangle any one of the three can influence the other two. It can go either direction.

It can start at any point. So panic can influence the trigger or the trigger can influence the panic. Just the thought can influence the other two. There is no fixed rule here. If panic is influencing your thoughts and the situation that causes these thought then you need to do relaxation exercises to change this. Self talk works best if you are relaxed.

Davit.

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1665

Hi Debora: If this therapist doesn't work out, could you call your local hospital for some info. on counselors/therapists in the area? They can steer you in the right direction for a good counselor. Or, if you have a community health centre, they could have a list of available services in your area, counselors or therapists. Let us know how it goes. We care.

Sunny

12 years ago 0 +0 / -0 542

Thank you for you're replies. You are so correct Vincenzia about the mind/body connection, when this first started the panic brought on the body symptoms now its more like the body symptoms are causing the anxiety. Today I am having bad pain in my stomach {I am going to post that on the "ladies only" forum, I hope its just that and not something else} I went to bed with horrible cramping in my stomach and its continuing, I am trying NOT to dwell but the pain is so bad its hard not too.

Yes changing my therapist is very scary, This will be my third professional since January, the first woman I saw was a christian counselor physcologist, she saw me twice, charged a lot of money, and then said she could not see me or help me anymore, cause she was leaving town, she should of called me and told me instead of having me come in and collecting money but I guess I was fortunate that it ended when it did she was not helpful and told me "I was not getting better because I was not exercising my faith in God" that really really bothered me, so I went with a male therapist who had excellent reviews and after eight months I feel worse! I am SO afraid to make another mistake, I hope this new one who is supposed to phone me this week is an expert in CBT and understands, if this one does not help I am just going to give up on therapists, I know that sounds negative but I cannot get my hopes up, spend money and not have it help plus my husband gets mad, maybe it is up to me and I am looking for some magic person to cure me, I dont know? does that make sense? I know I have to do a lot of work but I also know I need some help for now, if I could only find the right person and that has been so hard and not happening, I know therapy is not magic but it shouldnt make you worse should it? I just need help in coping right now.

I understand Zen about you're childrens father getting angry, my husband is the same way he will just leave the house too, and I know how scary and depressing that is and I am sorry for you, I just try to say to myself "they just dont understand" I hope with this program and all the wonderful support Zen from the members we can recover, we deserve it, for our children.

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