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A couple of questions.

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A couple of questions.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

jsquared

There are two kinds of journalling. They do the same thing but for two different reasons. First journaling gives you a reference since we seldom remember things exactly the same way they happened. This is how you keep track of your progress and brings triggers and other thoughts to the surface, certain consistencies. This you do as often as you can and during periods of heightened anxiety. A sort of self check like your computer looking for viruses.

The other one is one you do during a panic attack. It shows you that your thinking is faulty during the attack and therefor giving your fight or flight a reason to shut down. It will not shut down with out a reason to. For those of you that say my attacks happen where I can not write, you don't have to. You can write it in the air or you can say it out loud. The best though is by writing because you have two elements here, thinking and writing and if you say it out loud it adds a third element. The object in the first case is to build positive thought even if what you are writing is negative because it opens you to the fact that it is false and that alone is a positive. In the second case because there is a lot of confusion during an attack it clears up a lot of that and allowes the panic to subside. Over time you will find that the panic is gone before you can write about it, and eventually because you have this coping skill in place it will automatically open when you panic and if it is night and you are asleep you may sleep through it or wake in the morning with the feeling something happened but you can't remember what. Either way the object is to take away the focus on what is causing the panic so that you don't panic.

One other element that helps you track progress is to colour code occurrences. If you are having more of one colour than another that is the area to work on. Or as is the case with Arthritis a number and a colour are used to show frequency and intensity. You could use colours to record intensity making them hotter with the intensity. If you treat it like a semi serious game it works better. Numbers are all black and white and there fore tend to not absorb as well where colours get in your face so to speak.

Play with this and see what works best for you.

Here for us

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 36

Hello everyone. Thank you all for the replies and your support. :D One more question I have is where in the program does it teach you about journaling? I have been writing when I have attacks, but I'm not sure I'm doing it "right" or focusing on the "right" thing. I'm not saying I'm doing it wrong, but I would like to see some examples or have some advice about journaling.

Stay positive,

-jSquared

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Josie

Thank you. Some things often seem to be the same but have tiny tiny differences. And since we are all different if some thing is not working you have to try something different. Some things can have different interpretations depending on where you put the emphasis in a sentence, I use too many commas but I like to keep the emphasis where it belongs and even at that I can still sometimes get it wrong. So everyone, please correct or question me.

Love this group and group does work very well.

Here for us.

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 12049

Thank you Davit for your amazing insight and explanation!

Jsquared, I don't want to try and top that support and knowledge!

Keep posting with questions and concerns. The program has a lot to offer and so do the members!

Josie, Health Educator

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1665

Hi everyone: Davit, that's a great explanation. As usual, you are right on top and understanding and able to communicate the different approaches. I think we can try both approaches. I know I have done the exposures first, changing my negative thoughts to positives, reassuring myself with positive self talk. It wasn't overnight as I had GAD and it seemed was timid of everything for awhile. It does take practice and time. You do have to bury that negative thought with positive and depending on how long you have had that negative thought the times for each exposure might vary. As we are all different I suppose it makes sense that some will "get it" right away and others might take longer. One thing I do know for sure - and I am an example - is that it works. I no longer have panic attacks, sometimes some anxiety/stress, but it doesn't go any further.

Keep the faith.

Your friend, Sunny

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

jSquared.

Is that not thought exposure and are you not doing exposure with out actually having to have the physical sensation first? Building coping skills at the same time as changing perception. You don't have to do exposure to the sensation this way. The question is do you believe your answers, Really believe them. The more you can question yourself and believe the more you cover the negative thought / belief / action, till it doesn't come up again. But you now have to look at these questions and ask if you really, really believe the answers. If not then you have to work on the ones you don't believe. Leaving anyone not dealt with allows it to infect the rest.

Every thing has to be positive for this to work. Perception, attitude and belief.

Here for you,

Davit

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 376

Wow! I'm blown away by this dialog. Good questions jSquared. Thank you Davit for this clarification of the process. I've spent a lifetime in therapy trying to tolerate or manage my fears.... now I'm learning to change them... see them differently. I love the mirror image idea. This is where I am right now and it is a struggle trying to understand everything. I find this thread very helpful. Thanks guys!

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 36

Davit, thank you for your reply and support, I appreciate it. I think right now I am taking both approaches with my challenge questions. I will post a thought that I just challenged, any feedback would be appreciated.

Thought: That I will wake up and have to deal with panic attacks early on.

Q1: No, it is not true, I've been able to wake up feeling good and not have any attacks.

Q2: I don't know its true. Considering the fact I've been able to wake up feeling good most of my life and not have any panic attacks supports the fact that its not true.

Q3: No, the anxious thought isn't 100% true. Most of the time I'm able to wake up and not have any attacks.

Q4: The evidence for it being true is nothing. Although I've recently been dealing with attacks on some mornings recently, doesn't support my thought that it may happen tomorrow.

Q5: The evidence against it being true is that I've woken up and not had anxiety/panic early on.

Q6: Yes, it has happened before.

Q7: What's different now is that I don't believe it will happen and I'm not scared.

Q8: It wouldn't be that bad. I've made it through the attacks and have done what I needed to throughout the day.

Q9: The worst that could happen is I have an attack.

Q10: If the worst happened, it would be scary because I'm scared of attacks right now. But I should look at it as if it's a challenge I have to face to get better.

I've also made a sticky for myself to read as soon as I wake up that says: "Be Positive! :D; Journal For Anxiety; and Face The Attacks, Look At Them As A Challenge I Need To Overcome To Get Better!" I believe this sticky will help remind me of the good things that can come out of this learning experience.

Stay positive,

-jSquared

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

jSquared.

Once a person starts to have panic attacks they avoid any situation that makes them think they will. And then any occurrence of a perceived trigger will trigger. Next step is to look for them. So if you have had normal panic from indigestion that raised your heart rate you now associate every elevation in heart rate as the beginning of panic. Whether it is from exertion, indigestion or panic because you think something is not right. In effect you are doing it to yourself. If you have no association with panic attacks they would just be night mares, quickly got over and not built into core beliefs. In other words not accepted in memory. If because you have panicked before they get into memory as negative core beliefs then they will occur more often as something real to panic over even if they are not. Journaling can lessen the impact so you can bury them and if caught soon enough it can seem like they are gone from your memory. Now if you have interrupted sleep because you are not comfortable or too much coffee and it happens more than a few times you start to associate it as a reason to panic, so you do. For me I used to associate a cramp in my legs with claustrophobia and wake up with a panic attack. Every night for two years or a bit more. It soon becomes a circle with the cramp causing panic and the panic causing a focus on the cramp which in turn causes more panic. You need to break the cycle and there are three ways. Medication so you sleep through the trigger point or journaling. Or a combination of both. A sort of reverse exposure. Removing the reason to need to do exposure. Medication is fast, journaling takes time but unlike medication the panic seldom comes back when you quit.

Why is it harder to deal with in the morning? Could be because you can't concentrate as well then but more likely because it is when you have conditioned yourself to feel this way the most. The mind is a very powerful tool it can work for or against you.

Here for you.

Davit

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

jSquared.

One thing that annoys me is when people who don't know say it is all in your head. But the truth is it is all in your head, just not the way they think. This is where I go against the grain with exposure. Sure it is all in your head. There is no delete button on your memory. You can work up exposure till you build a tolerance to what you are exposing yourself to. Or you can change how you look at what you are being bothered by. By changing your thought process. Knowledge is power. It is about learning. I can read mirror images because I can turn them around in my mind so they are the right way even though they don't move. It is like that with core beliefs, you can not change them but you can turn them around so they are right. They are still there but now when you want to you can see them the way they should be. The mirror image of negative is positive. No in between. It is either negative or positive. So if you have a core belief that is dictating how you feel and act and it is not what you want you can change it with exposure. Since you can never delete it all you can do is bury it. This is done by exposure. This is where the thought on exposure splits. One way builds a tollerance, the other way buries the core belief by changing how you look at it. Both ways it is still there. By concentrating on how you look at the core belief you make it unavailable rather than just tolerable. I have two friends that were taught these two different ways. I believe that changing the way you look at a trigger, a thought, a core belief or what have you robs it of its power over you. Which ever route you choose as best for you, you still need relaxation and coping skills in place so you can handle the shock from the exposure.

Realizing that it was not the trigger that caused the reaction that caused the attack or any combination but how I was perceiving them was what turned the light on for me.

An example. The very common core belief "I am not good enough" You can try over and over to prove you are. Or you can look around and realize you are. If you can tell yourself that you are and truly believe it then exposing yourself to a situation where you prove you are only has to be done as many times as it takes you to truly believe it. But if you think you are not good enough then you have to do it over and over till you build a belief that you are. It doesn't take many failures before the negative core belief has you again. But if you start by believing you are good enough and there are no failures only learning experiences, then failures can not hurt you and successes only reinforce the though. One way is building belief on the exposure, the other is using exposure to build on the belief, Both have the same end goal. To bury what ever is causing the panic, so it is hard to access. Because it will always be there looking for a reason to resurface. I prefer my way because you get to tell it to go away instead of proving you can tolerate it. The majority use the other way because it is less work, just more prone to reoccur. It is all in your head remember. One way you get to say I can tolerate this because I've proved I can and the fact I can't is false, the other way says I don't have to tolerate it because I know it is false. Take your pick. Just remember exposure takes time and it does work.

I don't want to lose this so I'm posting it as is.

Here for you,

Davit

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A couple of questions.