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Classification of Alcoholics By Dr William D Silkworth:


10 years ago 0 345 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Spiritual Malady is nothing more than a euphemism for unhelpful or distorted thinking. The founders of A.A. recognized that true abstinence could not be achieved unless the mind was healed. So despite the fact that there are different approaches to the same conundrum, the underling message is the same. Unfortunately, A.A. does not encourage healing through self introspection, but rather allow "a power greater than ourselves" to do it for you.
 
Proponents of A.A. insist that the "disease" of alcoholism is that of the body (allergy), mind (mental obsession), and spirit (inward manageability). As Dave pointed out there is no scientific basis or proof to suggest that there is such a thing as an allergy that predisposes an individual to alcoholism. Although alcoholism is more likely to occur in a person who has a close relative that is an alcoholic but is that nature (inherited) or is it nurture (environmental or learned behavior?) The mind and spirit are interchangeable in that by obsessing about anything can impact the spirit while distorted thinking seedes the mind.
 
Followers of the A.A. program are taught to give their will to god as the "disease" of alcoholism is far too great a burden for the afflicted to bear. By doing so, it is believed that sobriety is no longer the drinker's responsibility therefore, they no longer have ownership of their own actions. If you slip the arms of A.A. await since it was your "disease" that caused it and you simply failed by not fully handing over the task of recovery to god.
 
In my opinion such a program is much like forced abstinence because you are not taking responsibility; someone/something has done it for you. My brother-in-law murdered himself after being a member of A.A. and sober for five years. He took an overdose of pills and washed it down with copious amounts of alcohol. My sister confirmed he did not learn how to deal with his thinking patterns proactively (see black and white thinking) so he did not heal.
 
I believe the people who've mastered complete abstinence or moderation successfully have done so through addressing the way they think and modifying the message their inner voice delivers.
10 years ago 0 1562 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hors controle:

Hope your friend runs into AA meetings while in Jail. Some of the AA groups take meetings into the jail. They are at a very receptive state of mind under these circumstances. I can totally relate to the "powerlessness" he is going through. I have see people die in my own family. There of them ages 33, 49 and 51. Why I am alive? Because I was willing to seek a spiritual solution. I believe in the book when it says:

The alcoholic may say to himself in the most casual way, "It won't burn me this time, so here's how!" Or perhaps he doesn't think at all. How often have some of us begun to drink in this nonchalant way, and after the third or fourth, pounded on the bar and said to ourselves, "For God's sake, how did I ever get started again?" Only to have that thought supplanted by "Well, I'll stop with the sixth drink." Or "What's the use anyhow?"

When this sort of thinking is fully established in an individual with alcoholic tendencies, he has probably placed himself beyond human aid, and unless locked up, may die or to permanently insane. These stark and ugly facts have been confirmed by legions of alcohoholics throughout history. But for the grace of God, there would have been thousands more convincing demonstrations. So many want to stop but cannot.

10 years ago 0 557 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Thank you both for your answers. I still believe he will stop, he is in jail now for break of condition. The thing that make me very sad is that the last time he called me, I reminded him how he put me in a financial hole by making me a prisoner in my own house. I could not go to work for 4 months because I was scared the police, etc would be at my place. It happened a few times and I just decided I was better to stay at home and watch him. Dave, you made a choice to stop. I don't think he is at that point. He is not drinking when he is under surveillance, otherwise, after a month, he is back into it. I know he is a wonderful person and I always believed in him but after reading those definitions, I am scare and thinking I should just give up on him. At the same time, I know people who were alcoholic and finally lost interest in it. Feelings... That is a hard thing to deal with Thanks again to both of you M
10 years ago 0 1009 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi hors contrôle,

What is a real alcoholic or even a pseudo-alcoholic? Does anyone really know? The term is so subjective and based on the individual. One can choose to believe a definition established by a doctor with the knowledge of the time (1920's) and disregard the considerations and discoveries that have happened between now and then. Yes, the problem still exists, just the same as PTSD did as well, only PTSD is a recent discovery\ category of psychological disorders. We can certainly agree that you and your loved one have a have a significant problem with alcohol abuse. His secretive drinking behaviour doesn't categorize him as a "real alcoholic" though, nor does excessive drinking. I did the same thing and I have long history of drinking that started in my teens and escalated in my twenties, continued through my forties. If I use every example and yardstick set forth that defines an alcoholic I should be a hopeless, out-of-control drunk with no self-control and craves alcohol incessantly due to my spiritual malady (whatever that is) who can not touch a drop because of some mythical allergy there exists no scientific or medical test for. Well, I'm not. I quit because I finally came to my senses and realized it was the best thing to do for myself and my family. It wasn't easy and it's a work in progress and life is so much better now I can't imagine ever going back to that lifestyle. Actually I can, very easily in fact, and it's not pretty so I choose to do what's best for me rather than be a self-indulgent egomaniac. So, yes, severe alcohol abuse existed back in the 20's as it does now and there are extreme cases as outlined in the "Big Book" however, nothing is so cut and dry as to define a person permanently by their behaviour. Interesting how easily it is to embrace that idea when black and white thinking is characteristic on an alcohol abuse problem. YOU choose to define yourself as that and believe it in your heart that is the case. Thankfully, we have the choice to choose. 

Best regards,

Dave
10 years ago 0 1562 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
I am beginning to wonder if I should be in love with a real alcoholic or would I be taking too much of a chance....

Thats a difficult dilema. But one thing for sure, real alcoholics cannot stay away from booze. They may do it for a day or two, even weeks and months, ultimately they will drink if they don't take care of the spiritual malady. During the forced sobriety they often are miserable, depressed, argumentative, easily get perturbed and create drama and sometimes even suicidal.
10 years ago 0 557 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Thank you for those definitions Foxman. I think I recognize myself as a hard drinker but totally recognize the man I think I love, as a hard core alcoholic, hiding bottles all over the place for the next morning, etc. He mention something similar to me about his dad a while ago, saying his dad was not a real alcoholic since the fear to lose his wife made him stop in one day. I am beginning to wonder if I should be in love with a real alcoholic or would I be taking too much of a chance....
10 years ago 0 1562 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
My brother-in-law was a psychopath he turned so violent that anybody that drank with him once would never drink with him again. He would not accept help until couple of days prior to his death couple of years ago. All of his organs shut of from abuse.

About advancement in medicine, psychiatry, treatment. True however: there no medication that removes the obsession of the mind. Medications like Antibuse causes adverse effect if the candidate drank with Anitbuse and some people like my brother could die  because that. And then there are other medications that reduce the reward of consuming alcohol hoping an person would loose interest in alcohol because he couldn't feel the effect of alcohol. I am not sure if it ever succeeds in patients. People usually would stop the medication because they are so addicted to the feeling.

And on this classification being agreed by medical community, I am not sure. It could be mixed reaction. My psychiatrist recommended AA for me after looking at my family history. Five years later after I moved to another town, I saw him in one of the AA meetings. Looks like he too was a recovered alcoholic, he never told me that when I consulted him.


BTW Carl Jung the then 3rd famous person in the field of psychiatry was the one suggested a spiritual solution. Dr. Silkworth just knew about the various type of alcoholics (the problem) but he never had a solution. And it was all piece together by BillW who understood the problem from Dr Silkworth and solution from the Tenets of Oxford group pieced together the solution. And when the first 100 drunks got sober using this path they wrote this book called alcoholics anonymous. 
10 years ago 0 1009 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Foxman,

Interesting reading. I never considered the use of the word "psychopath" to describe an alcoholic. That term has typically been reserved for more extreme criminal behavior but I'm not a psychiatrist so I'll leave it at that. As I read through the history of AA and Dr William D Silkworth the one thing that struck me was the vintage of the classification. Dr William D Silkworth formulated his views on alcohol abuse about 80 years ago, and was practicing at the same time as Sigmund Freud. While we can consider the 2 of them pioneers in their field I'm hesitant to put so much stock in an opinion that was written  so long ago in light of all of the advancements in medicine, psychiatry, treatment, and drug development. 
 
Is this classification still agreed upon by the medical community, particularly psychiatry or has it been updated and expended upon?
 
 
10 years ago 0 1562 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Moderation may work for a problem drinker but for an alcoholic in my experience moderation is out of equation. The book later differentiates between a moderate drinker vs a hard drinker vs a real alcoholic.

Here is the differentiation:

===================================================================================
Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.

Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.

But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.

Here is a fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplace the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no one gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.

This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly.
==================================================================================
Some where in my drinking career, I could relate to that 'crossing the invisible line' but it was too late. Alcoholism has crept deep into my being. Every attempt to stop/moderate was followed by worse than earlier condition. It was just not the blackouts and other external conditions but internally I was devastated, filled with fear, rage, unable to have a decent conversation with anyone.


10 years ago 0 11216 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Foxman,

Thanks for posting this. For many abstinence is the only way but for many others they have found moderation is the approach that is right for them.

How did you know choosing abstinence was right for you?
Ashley, Health Educator

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