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Necessity for a Higher Power - Willpower Alone will not Suffice

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Necessity for a Higher Power - Willpower Alone will not Suffice

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 118

Splitimage, I am going to read the book you referenced -- "Waiting" by Marsha Hornbacher. Thanks for posting! John

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

yet I have complete power over my choice to drink, how I choose to live my life, and change the way I think. Relapse is something I choose to avoid like the plague.

The program of AA is for people who lost the choice in drink. If you think you still have power over alcohol, there is nobody to argue against it. You may have noticed that I don't respond to any other posts, if I sense that the member does not subscribe to a spiritual solution or if it is other non AA related topics. I can only share my experience with which I could identify with.

if there is a higher power and he gave us the freedom to make a choice why would HE bind us to a permanent state of recovery?

I am not sure what you mean 'bind us to a permanent state of recovery'. However: I am recovered alcoholic. I don't obsess about drinking anymore, I go to any place a normal person would go. I don't avoid places, people or things like you generally hear in the rooms. That is out of people who don't understand the program AA. I do have to say, I have to grow spiritually in order for me stay in power, so that I can live a life without having to put some mind altering stuff in my body. Because repeatedly I have seen people in AA throw away 2, 5, 10, 20, even 30 years of sobriety because they quit following the simple steps and succumb to the foolish thought that they can handle alcohol like normal people.

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 154

Hi Dave,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and beliefs. By no means did I mean to limit the "higher power" discussion to its application within AA boundaries. God (Higher power) simply cannot be constrained to any merely human concept or opinion or interpretation, many of which we will also find within the confines of religious doctrines. My principle concern was that alcoholics cannot remain sober for the remainder of their life leaning only on their own will power, hence the necessity for a solution requiring power beyond human means. I use AA as an excellent reference point as there are countless thousands if not millions who have been cured of the alcoholic disease subscribing to their fellowship and principles...and that is fact. But, by no means is AA the only means of being saved from alcohol's ravages. I underline (repeat) for emphasis...no real alcoholic will ever quit drinking for good by trying to pull himself up by his own bootstraps (i.e. willpower). He needs a higher power to lift him up, and he needs to maintain fellowship with this entity to succeed.

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1009

Hi David (and all),

David, you bring up an excellent topic, one that has many meanings on many levels to each and every person. It can be a touchy subject for some while others embrace it fully. I am not a religious person....spiritual yes, religious, no. A higher power, in my mind, represents the positive in life yet this positive higher power is ambivalent to our choices. In the natural scheme of things there are both positive and negative influence and it is our fundamental choice which one we allow to dominate our lives. Choosing to operate in a way that leads to a life of positive choice yields peace, contentment, and happiness. Conversely, if we consistently follow a path of negative choice it leads to the opposite. The operative word is here CHOICE. WE choose either or...... the positive spirit of a higher power or the negative spirit of the lower power. Each cares not of your choice or the consequences and you reap what you sow. It simply IS. These choices are extensive and each will have an influence on your life....our actions, our language, our response, our beliefs.....everything counts. If we are fair to ourselves and treat our minds and our bodies with the respect and care they deserve as they are naturally meant operate on then that positive "higher power" will naturally express itself through you and you'll find the strength and contentment you are searching for. It's follows the Yin and Yang of life, the natural order of things. Perhaps a simply view but sometimes simply is best (at least for me).

I have one question though.......how come every time we speak of a higher power the topic defaults to AA, powerlessness over choice, 12 steps, etc. If there was ever a candidate to subscribe to these principles it would be me....yet I have complete power over my choice to drink, how I choose to live my life, and change the way I think. Relapse is something I choose to avoid like the plague. I know the consequences and I've quit. And now that I have I feel that positive energy everyday. If subscribing to the philosophy of AA helps then great! Use it as a tool set to move you along. Somehow though, if there is a higher power and he gave us the freedom to make a choice why would HE bind us to a permanent state of recovery? I guess what I'm asking is...is it possible to try and explore the "higher being" concept without the boundaries as viewed through the doctrine of AA?

My apologies if I've I've offended anyone of the AA members here. I'll refrain from future comments on the subject if this an AA directed discussion.

Best regards,

Dave

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

The first step in recovery is realizing the complete powerlessness with regard to alcohol and unmanageability of my life. And reading the stories in the big book, I was able to conclude that I am indeed powerless over alcohol. And if I have lead a life without that, I need something above and beyond my own self. Thats where the program of AA comes in. If you look at the chapter Bills story, Bill saw that something worked in his friend Ebby. Both were childhood friend, both drank alike and some felt Ebby was worse than Bill and was about to be committed. But something worked in Ebby that Bill could see that he didn't have. So he goes through the process that Ebby went through and was successful in staying sober. It was Ebby who suggested that Bill can come up with is own conception of GOD. So in AA we let the members come up with their own conception of God but the program of AA stresses the spiritual principles which is more importact to have psychic change. The 2 segments on Bill Story are wonderful way of understanding the struggle Bill W went through to overcome his prejudice over God concept and recovering from this hopless condition of the mind and body.

http://xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=158

http://xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=159

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 272

I'm about as anti-religion as is possible, at AA I tell people I believe in the laws of physics, that there is some still undiscovered universal matter or particle that links everyone and everything on the planet. I see it's power expressed through the actions of other people.

I had a lot of trouble with the higher power concept in AA initially and fired one sponsor who kept ramming her version of religion done my throat. But once I realized that there were many things bigger than me that I had no control over, and started to let go of my attempts to control everything, I started to find peace.

There's a book I really like called "Waiting" by Marsha Hornbacher. It's subtitled, a non-believers guide to finding a higher power, and it takes you through her experience of coming to define her own higher power. It's worth reading.

splitimage

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 14

Thank you David. I so do want to believe. I think I've become numbed by painful experiences and have a hardened heart. As for willpower, don't have much of that. But today was a good day. No alcohol whatsoever. I can't remember the last time I didn't drink. So thank you Higher Power!! Thank you for today. :)

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 154

Good evening Lisa,

You need not be a spiritual person. All that is required is to believe. And even if you cannot believe, then begin by being 'willing to believe' (step 2 of AA's 12 steps: www.12step.org/steps/the-12-steps/html ). You have already passed Step 1.

God is much bigger than our hearts and minds so He knows exactly what we need/want before we even ask Him. As far as doing it right (i.e. prayer), there is no right or wrong way...simply talking with Him is good. Keep persevering; He will show you the way.

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 14

I am so not a spiritual person, but I have frequently found myself praying to a God I'm not sure I believe in to take away this affliction and make me well. I've been praying every day. I just hope I'm doing it right!

10 years ago 0 +0 / -0 12049

Cryptkeeper,

Thank you for starting such an informational thread. Every opinion is valued and support is essential within this addiction. We look forward to hearing what others can contribute.

Josie, Health Educator

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Necessity for a Higher Power - Willpower Alone will not Suffice