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7 years ago 0 154 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Foxman,
 
You share below, "That's the key. I stay in consciousness as long as I stay spiritually fit. That means, I have to constantly work on my selfish self-centered conduct. That's where prayer meditation, constant working with others help."  

I believe you and I are expressing the same principle and beliefs, just using different words.
7 years ago 0 1562 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
always go to in times of severe temptation. 

Initially maybe. But then when we commence this way of living. The obsession gets lifted. There are several promises in the book but the most I like is the 10 step promise:

And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone, even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.

You see the last sentence? Thats the key. I stay in consciousness as long as I stay spiritually fit. That means, I have to constantly work on my selfish self-centered conduct. Thats where prayer meditation, constant working with others help. 


7 years ago 0 154 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Good morning all,

Foxman, what you describe below is vital and extremely useful for those wishing to completely abstain from alcohol.  I could not agree with you more.

I consciously choose to moderate, but one day God will remove even that desire...of that I am 100% confident.  But for now, I make a conscious choice...I do not recommend it to anyone nor do I expect anyone to follow my example.
 
Foxman, you mention two things in particular, and if you would allow me to paraphrase, that are crucial to complete abstinence from alcohol. The first is you found (heard) someone you could respect and always go to in times of severe temptation.  And two, you did a whole lot of deep down heart, soul and mind searching (one of AA's 12 steps, taking inventory).  From that internal journey, which I could imagine as being both a fruitful one and a painful one, you came to see and admit to your selfishness and the effect it had on your most loved ones and others (another tenet of AA's 12 step program).
 
The last thought I have, as you have bolded the word below with a question mark, is that this internal journey is not a simple overnight one or "quick fix", but a gradual and sometimes long one...taking anywhere from a few months to a few years...each alcoholic is different.  Three key words come to mind in all of this: "patience," "perseverance" and "resolve." 
 
Some can muster these up because they have these innate character traits.  In my case, I am too weak and need to depend on a higher power, namely my heavenly Father, for strength, patience and endurance in this quest to quit drinking for good.  Either way, whether by one's own will power or by God's nature and support, whatever works for anyone on this forum, I say go for it and may God bless you richly!
7 years ago 0 1562 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
 Thoughts?

 For me, I gained full confidence that I live a alcohol free life, when I first heard my mentor talk, that was after 4 months of struggle being in AA. Something they way he presented the program gave me confidence that I can also experience the power that the book talks about. Until then I was scared. What changed? I had to change. I had to take a deep deep look at my selfishness, self-centered conduct and started to let go of those. Let people in to look at the stuff and see the tragedy. Slowly slowly awareness started creeping in. Today I could see a clear path on how to live a peaceful serene life. The alcohol problem is long gone.
7 years ago 0 345 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi ND,

I really don't think the wedding will be that hard since it's only one evening and your husband will be there to help. However, the five day visit is what I would find to be quite the challenge however, I'm alone.  I'm assuming your husband and kids will be there as well so they'll help you to moderate if you decide to drink. I'm confident you'll be fine.  To your question "is it moderating if you're not doing it on your own" I'd say in my opinion "no."  It's not you that had the control, it's those watching over you. You weren't really moderating, you were behaving...forced...but behaving. That is, until AV took over and you just couldn't behave anymore. That is why moderating just doesn't work for some of us. We try to behave but that is not who we are. I have no problem refusing a drink when out with friends because all they'll have is one or two drinks. For me, one or two drinks is a waste of calories. When I drink, I drink to get drunk and that is the reason I need to abstain. I know I'll never be able to moderate, ever.

TS
7 years ago 0 154 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Nodrama,

As I mentioned earlier, I am a nobody, and no one special.
 
My ability to moderate my drinking to two 5% 700 ml cans of beer per day or less for the past 6 months is a miracle much as was my survival after my last suicide attempt when I suffered horrible physical injuries that should have killed me instantly when I intentionally drove a vehicle into a solid brick wall (weird thing is brick walls don't move at all?), without seat belts attached at 60 miles per hour.  All GOD!  No way should I have survived, even the doctors said as much. 
 
The same goes for my ability to moderate.  If you had suggested that I could do what I have been doing for the past six months, I would have said you were off your rocker or would ask you to share some of whatever it is you're smoking (my lame attempt at black humour...always did like the Monty Python series ).

So, as in AA circles, I depend 100% on my daily relationship with our heavenly Father (a higher power) for my strength and ability to moderate...plain and simple.  No way I could in a thousand years have done it on my own.  If I said I did or could, I'd be a damn liar.
7 years ago 0 421 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi All! I think the moderating thing is such a personal experience.  I have to say that I see both sides of it.  I know that i have a problem with drinking, when I drink.  I had gotten depressed, not taken care of it and let myself get into a daily drinking habit. I really didn't think about moderation until I came here. Didn't think of it as an option---and originally in my posting I didn't think I could do it either.  And truth is I'm not very good at it. I get to confident and the trigger for me, was actually being free to buy it...to shop for it.  As long as someone else bought it and gave it to me, I was ok. Once I had that control back of my own mind, it didn't take long for me to begin sliding down the slope.  So, again it's a personal thing.  CK--that's great that you can successfully do it! I can't on my own.... so then my question is if I can't moderate on my own is it called moderating even? Right now I'm abstaining and it feel great. We'll see how I do when our visitor comes for 5 day's at the end of the month....and next month when I go to the drunkfest wedding. Jeesh....I think it might be easier to just say no than do all this planning.  Thoughts?
7 years ago 0 1562 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Below is a quote from Big book. Yeah, heaven know how many times I have tried to control my drinking. If you can do it, yeah Hats are off to you.

If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about- face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!
7 years ago 0 154 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi folks,

I want everyone to know that I have the utmost respect for all your input, opinions and advice.  And for those who are able to or were able to completely abstain, I sincerely applaud you because alcoholism is a (excuse my language) a real ***** to get rid of.

Having written the foregoing, and by no means am I some sort of hero or anyone special with extraordinary will power, but I have been able to moderate my drinking for almost seven months now.  This is something that if you had asked me seven months ago, I would have said you were out of your mind...it isn't possible, at least not for me.

But I have done exactly that. No more hard liquor at all, no more wine, no more beer in excess of 5% alcohol and no more than 2-3 drinks (beer) per night.  OK, I'm still an alcoholic with a drinking problem...guilty as charged. I still need, want and make a conscious decision to have my 2-3 beer (5%) per night just to chill out. In fact, the really weird, yet wonderful thing, is that the very thought of going back to drinking in excess or going back to hard liquor or wine actually turns me off.  In fact, it scares me to the point that the thought itself acts as a deterrent.
 
I am not advocating moderation for all the reasons, and they are excellent ones, listed by different forum members below.  I am simply stating that it is possible.  If I, a real problem drinker with depression, who was completely convinced I could never moderate my drinking can do it, then I suppose I could stick out my neck and say that others could as well.
 
In any event, I would never ever defend my position to you Nodrama or to the rest of you guys, because I have too much respect to attempt to force my situation or success in moderating on anyone.
 
I have gone through a major stress period in the last ten days, in which I had to have my eldest dog (my 9 year old child) put to sleep because of a fast-acting and progressive liver disease. I cried and cried and cried.  It had to be the toughest thing I ever had to do in my life except for my stupid suicide attempt last October when I attempted to drive my car 60 miles an hour into a concrete wall and suffered physical injuries that should have killed me instantly.  But by the grace, mercy and plans of God, I am still here. 
 
Not more than 5 days after our eldest pet dog's death, and over $4000 later, my youngest baby (3 year old dachshund) became very sick and was displaying almost exactly the same symptoms.  So back to the vet hospital as an emergency case since it was the weekend, and 7 hours and $1115 later, thank God, she did not have the same virus or whatever disease that killed our eldest baby (I call them our babies or children, even though we have 3 adult children, because that is how we treat them and recognize them). She is now 100% back to her old self...which can be a royal pain in the behind, but we love her all the same, spots and speckles and all.
 
Now, that was an extreme acid test for me, because normally when I was drinking heavily, I would have got sloshed almost every night since my eldest pet dog (child) passed on, and i would have most definitely used these latest incidents as my reason for drinking so much.
 
In closing, and I am going to throw it out there for others to comment on, drinking in moderation (even for heavy drinking alcoholics) is possible.  As I stated earlier, I am living proof, and I was a tough ass case...believe me.

7 years ago 0 115 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Wow! Some very insightful and enlightening commentary from everyone on this chain. Wise words indeed. 

ND, based on my own experience, I feel quitting is easier than moderating. That may sound counterintuitive, so let me explain.

I found moderating too much work. I had to plan to go by the liquor store. Plan what I was going to buy. Plan how much volume. Plan when I was going to start in. Plan when I had to stop driving, which usually depended on other peoples schedules. Plan to pace myself (which usually went out the window once I got past the first couple). Plan to drink and go to sleep in order to complete whatever tasks I needed to to the next day. Plan how to deal with being hungover and feeling like crap. The act of drinking, in hindsight, was exhausting. Now that Im not drinking, all this list of things to do is gone. 

I have thought this through carefully over the last 15 months. I hope my comments make sense.
Thanks guys; great comments!
Gus

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