EvolutionHealth.care

Home
Main Forum
Anxiety
Health Educator´s Corner
New Ask the Expert in Panic Center

Advanced Search Form

New Ask the Expert in Panic Center

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1

Okay, what if I was to suggest that the core belief is that anxiety is dangerous?

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

NJM

If you shoot the tiger and they are not common then the thought is gone and so is the panic. This is a temporary belief and though it stays in memory it does not become a core belief. but if you do not know or some one constantly tells you there are tigers even though there aren't you will build a core belief that gives you something to fear even though there is no reason. This is why the panic comes often and comes hard when there is a trigger in place. The stronger the core belief and the more unreasonable it is the harder to break the cycle as you put it. Breaking the cycle only postpones the potential for another attack.

Burying the core belief works better for this and that takes exposure.

I totally disagree with introceptive exposure in those with long term core beliefs. With out coping skills in place and relaxation skills in place it can set back or increase the fear of trying.

You can take a bunch of non swimmers and throw them in deep water and some will swim and some will drown. I don't think the gamble is worth it, I would rather send them in with life jackets. Chances are that none will drown.

This is too close to the attitude of some that say it is just in your head so get over it. Of course it is in our heads but in the case of well established core beliefs it will take more than just a quick shock to get it out. Introceptive exposure is akin to getting back on a horse when you get bucked off, if you do it right away it works but if you wait a week and think about it it only gets harder. Better to learn why the horse bucked you off so you know what to expect.

Just my opinion but coming from some one that had life long anxiety and years of panic attacks every night I think that if you threw me in the deep water I would have drowned.

The object is not to get used to panic attack situations but to build the thought that they are false and for this it takes a change of perception, attitude and belief. Just getting used to them is only a coping skill and only a step towards getting rid of them. There is a big difference between normal panic and panic attacks.

There are so many degrees of anxiety and panic attacks varying from a simple fear to a full blown unreasonable panic so strong it hides the reason it is there.

This is a good program and takes people though it step by step and with the group for support and explanation there have been massive improvements.

Here for every one,

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 5

Hi, I didn't think that Peter had really answered the question so not meaning to be arrogant I had suggested this so....do with it what you want. I'm curious to see.

Question: I started having panic attacks a few months ago. Lately though, i am experiencing a constant feeling of anxiety and fear. A feeling that you get when your afraid or very worried. The butterfly sensation in stomach, head tingling, rapid heartbeat, no appetite, sometimes feeling like you cant breathe, feeling like your going to lose it. Its a constant feeling. I have recently had someone move in with me and i'm used to it being me and my boyfriend. I don't like being around other people alot, unless i want to. To have someone in my space is causing me this anxiety. How do you handle something like this when its constantly there? What can i do to help myself with these feelings.

If it is any comfort it is common for people that experience panic attacks to experience constant anxiety between the attacks and to escalate the experience of that anxiety by developing an intolerance to any mental or physical sensations that say another panic attack might be coming. Both panic and anxiety are a healthy part of the fight or flight response that is wired into our brains and is perfectly normal in a genuinely threatening situation. It is known that it is the fear of this usually adaptive fear that becomes maladaptive and causes the distress.

So, one of the first steps is to educate yourself about what your brain is doing because knowledge is known to reduce fear and reducing fear is what you need to do. Since the1980’s there have been huge steps forward in the understanding of panic and treatments that have shown a success rate of close to 100%. David Barlow, Michele Craske, David Clark and Arron Beck amongst others are pioneers in understanding that panic is the result of the fear of the mental and physical sensations that are associated with fear (the fear of fear). These sensations can be dizziness, vertigo, lightheadedness, a beating heart, shakiness, unreality, butterflys, a blank mind, any sensation that you personally associate with an oncoming panic attack.

Some people describe a panic attack as the most terrifying event of their life so it is understandable that you set up "constant anxiety and fear" for another one coming and this guard is known to amplify your usual anxiety (living with a new roommate, etc.) through anxiety monitering and hypervigilence to the point where together it becomes more distress to your life than the panic.

If you had had a tiger jump out at you yesterday and you narrowly escaped with your life you would start to monitor every sound of the wind in the grass, every rustle of leaves, but in panic disorder the fear is from within so panic becomes the tiger and the physical and mental sensations from within become the rustle in the leaves of a potential attack. To top it all off when the fear is targeted within (physical and mental sensations) you can believe you are going insane or “going to lose it” and that just adds to the fear cycle.

So, since reducing fear is what you need to do and understanding what your mind and body are doing and that you are not going insane or losing control can only take you part of the way out of the fear, these very clever scientists have figured out that if we expose ourselves directly to the sensations of fear (see*) we will get used to them. If we get used to the sensations we break the cycle of panic and if we break the cycle of panic we reduce the amplified anticipatory anxiety of expecting panic.

If you are thinking that there is catch and it can’t be that easy, you are right. It takes years of practice for you to get so good at these maladaptive automatic thoughts and emotions and it takes a lot of hard work and practice to relearn. Just think if your mind was so good at learning the wrong thing how good it can be at learning the right things.

* See the " paniccenter.net "

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Debit

So you have time to do this. Practice telling yourself it is your choice. Make a mantra of it if necessary. Try to go some where you don't want to as exposure and your thoughts and mantra as a coping skill. I would also, if it is still bad, take a valium before the Concert (?) so that what you come away with is a positive experience to bury the thought "I don't think I can do this".

Believe it or not once you can accept that it is your decision and you have control all that anxiety and excess worry just fades away. It does take time because you have to bury the negativity that pops up with every challenge. Think of every success as a reward. And celebrate the success with some small thing. EG a drive out of the way, A few minutes looking around enjoying the day. You can get some thing from the store as long as you don't start going just so you can have the reward. Remember this is something you are supposed to be able to calmly do. Oh and if you look around you will find a whole lot of people looking just the way you feel.

Here for you,

Davit.

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 152

Hi Davit,

You are exactly right, the thought of the trip most of the time is worse than actually doing it, sometimes i start thinking about it and get anxious and then try and put it out of my mind and say just do it, and its not always as bad as i imagined.

and yes it is definatly something planned rather than spur of the moment things, its worse if it is planned for a couple of weeks away because i spend the weeks before being nervous and thinking omg i hope i dont have anxiety, i hope i will be ok, i know now after part 2 of the program that i am jumping to conclusions and that nothing may happen at all, my sister in lawa got me a ticket to Jersey boys for christmas and instead of thinking wow i cant wait to go the first thing i though was oh no what if, its another two weeks away and i am still not sure if i should go or not, im 10 days into my medication and have my first appointment with the phsyc on Monday, the show is 2 and half hours in a big theatre in the city, i dont know if im ready for that exposure yet

xxx

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Debit.

AH, but you see you only have to climb the hill once. Once it is over so is the threat. Poof, gone.

But the Grocery store, now you have to go whether you want to or not. For some the thought that you have to go is worse than the fact. Again we have with the grocery store a control thing. To handle the repetitive anxiety you have to remember it is your decision so you have control not the anxiety. I would guess that the times when you have trouble are planned trips, not spur of the moment. Now that you have climbed the hill, if some one said you had to do it every day you would panic. You would exaggerate the difficulty till it became a panic attack.

It really is a control thing, you or your imagination (panic).

I used to drive to town and sit in front of the grocery store and not go in because I couldn't.

Then I just decided it was my right and my decision to shop. It was my decision to shop when it was crowded. All of it. It was my decision. I had the control not my anxiety. I did need a few distractions at first but now it is okay. In any given situation I just tell myself it is my decision to do it and then I can. It takes a little practice but it works.

Here for you,

Davit

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 152

I agree davit, I recently went on a work trip and at the end of the day we did some sight seeing, we were going up a very large hill to see a tower overlooking the city, there were narrow winding roads that led to the top of the hill and it was very high up, i hate driving or being a passenger on that type of road and have not been on one for ages, however while going up this road, i was stressed / worried and a little panicky, but did not feel anxiety or a panic attack, thats what makes them so weird in a situation where something i fear should cause anxiety or panic attack it didnt yet something like going shopping at times (which i enjoy) can, it was like i was controlling the panic instead of it controlling me

xxx

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 538

I think the doctor did an excellent job on this one...very informative answer...made a lot of sense to me..I agree Davit, everyone should have a look at it.

Juanita

13 years ago 0 +0 / -0 6252

Ashley

I still think there is normal panic, one step up from anxiety, such as when you are in a hurry and can't find your keys or glasses or wallet. It passes upon finding the misplaced item. Panic attacks happen when normal or not normal panic is exaggerated. I agree that anxiety causes you to slow down your thoughts to analyse the situation. Over analysing can lead to panic quickly if there is no logical reason for the anxiety. Such as slowing down your thoughts to the point you can not see what is right in front of you. Such as looking right at direction signs but your thought process is so slow and confused that you panic. This too goes as soon as you realize it is okay, such as some one pointing out the direction for you. Normal fear or core beliefs built from a previous incident interfere with letting go and take this normal panic to a panic attack. This of course sets you up for another attack by the simple process of causing you to exaggerate the anxiety upon approaching a similar situation, complete with the slowing down of your thought process to the extent that you get tunnel vision or lose contact with reality. Until some one has this happen it is hard to understand it. Some people can just shake there head and shrug it off. Some people have no trouble asking directions. And some people panic because they don't know what else to do. Worry, what ifs and a good memory for bad situations all play to increase this tendency to over panic.

So there is a difference between anxiety and panic, but there is still a tie between them. But anxiety and panic are normal reactions, panic attacks are not. Panic attacks in my opinion can be based on a number of factors, Core beliefs, fatigue, over stimulus. Or any combination. The cure is still basically the same thing only the process is different depending on the situation. This is where CBT is great because it can be customized to the individual. And we are all individuals. I hope the good Doctors post cleared up this difference between the two because I did not realize that people might not know. Everyone should read it.

Just my thoughts,

Davit.