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11 years and counting

Timbo637

2024-10-31 6:49 AM

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Feels like hell week all over!!

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2024-10-30 9:38 AM

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Roller Coaster Withdrawal

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2024-10-14 12:28 PM

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Smile....and don't shoot the messenger

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2024-09-27 3:17 PM

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Session 14 Shyness & Sensitivity


14 years ago 0 659 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Davit,
 
Very Very well put I couldn't agree with you more.
Thank you!
 
 
Your Friend,
Here for you.
Red
14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
The DSM IV manual is on the net if anyone is interested.
Some of the definitions are not accurate though. If you read it discuss it with your therapist. Like all things mental and Physical, you may fit the category but not 100%. You do not have to have all the symptoms to have the condition. The mind may be blocking some or some may not be important. This is why panic manifests itself in so many different ways. 
What does it matter. Panic attacks are still panic attacks and the cure is still the same no matter what the cause. Knowing the cause only makes it easier, it is not necessary. The program works and it is simple to follow. But it must be followed for it to work, and if a person quits half way when they start to feel better the chances of rebound with even worse panic are quite possible. There are others here that will state this is so.

How do I know if I am depressed if the definition of depressed is to be depressed for six months and I don't know what depression is so I do not know if I am depressed or have been for six months, besides how would I know when it started. 
The psychiatrists I know are more concerned with how you answer than what you answer. I know and have had dealings with three. I do not have any mental diseases but was suicidal so I made a good test subject. A teaching aid so to speak. Keeps the student open and not fixated. 
Pain can cause depression and panic, does that make pain a mental condition then. Possibly since when pain killers don't work antidepressants do. But take away the pain and the panic and depression go. Not exactly the definition of panic or depression. Things cross over. Some times there is no exact definition.
I have a high pain threshold because I can mentally block out a lot of it. I still consider it a physical problem even though it has a mental side to it.
Some things are best left to the professionals to diagnose but it is good to be informed. 

I believe routine is more important than socializing for seniors because it gives them a reason to continue. They are less likely to panic if they know what is about to happen. In the elderly socializing can cause anxiety if they can not follow the conversation or activity yet in homes socializing is still pushed on them.

I believe you do not have to be a senior to fit this category. Routine is very important as long as it does not become OCD. Another of those things separated by a fine line. One negative and one positive. You have to decide which is which.

Losing ones independence does not contribute to the tendency to form a mental condition. Whether or not a person accepts it does. Just like coffee does not cause panic attacks it only adds to the possibility. 

And then there is medication. My condition right now will be gone in 25 days when the course of medication is over. Something to look forward to and making the anxiety easier to deal with.
To answer Dizzy's last question. I will never know because there was some one to help me.

Here with you.
Davit

14 years ago 0 659 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
I am sitting here reading this post and I understand you to say that You think that more socialization would help you to not dwell on your mental health so much. If this is what you think you need than this is good thing.  Is this a goal you are working towards?  If so how do you plan on working towards this goal?  What steps are you going to take to reach this goal? These are things to think about and ponder...This program here should be able to help you reach your goals, what ever they are....
I wish you luck in what ever direction you decide to go in, in your quest to get well......
 
Red
14 years ago 0 118 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Davit
 
The plant story was merely a way of showing that there was some purpose in your life even though you were living alone. Some of the purpose was that you had dogs to take care off. The dogs are a substitute for people. Good health and a purpose can also substitute for people. Even though I put the definition of social isolation up in my last post does a definition apply to everyone? Absolutely not. I do not know if you know about the DSM IV it is a manual that helps psychiatrist diagnoses you and try to help you. Although I do not know the exact wording some of the typical question are like, have you been depressed for 6 months. Well what if I only been depressed for 5 month 29 days. So do you fit the definition of being depressed. Again same applies to social isolation some people will fit a definition of being depressed and need help, while other will not need help.  Definitions of social isolation are not an exact science just as it is with most subjective sciences. Another thing about your situation is that they say seniors keep going when there health starts to deteriorate by socializing more hence seniors centres. Socialization takes the place of physical and mental health. Therefore, in the study of seniors, they would live longer when there health starts to deteriorate by socializing with others, when they lost the independence of good health. One thing a old jewis man told me. He asked me what if freedom? I expected him to say something about being in a democratic society, I think he had some experience with world war two. However, his answer was your health, if you lose that then they people start taking away thing from you. I imagine this is what your experiencing having to give over your self care to others or depend on others when you were so independent before. This is a role change for you, I am sure you covered it when you went through the toll box. I also see this in myself health does not just mean body I think it also means mind. So when I was in good health I needed less socialization, but now that my mental health  is currently not so great I think I need socialization more so that I do not dwell on my mental health. I am not saying that spending time on the panic centre is wasteful, becuase it forces me to dwell on my mental heath. The time spent here lasts a life time or give you tools for the remainder of your life. I think you should try to find the good in your role change even though it is extremely hard to do. Some of the good is that there are others to help you imagine what it would be like if no one helped you.
 
Dizzy
14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Dizzy

I'm quite sure we all need to have some one or something to look after. We just need it more when we are disabled. Life has to have purpose. Speaking of old folks homes, in many the only thing they have to look forward to is the next meal. More people should volunteer. Most places are seriously short staffed. I can believe your plant storey. 
But it doesn't have to be people, it can be a garden. But people is more social and I think more healthy.

Here with you
Davit.
14 years ago 0 118 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
 

Davit

I am going to tell you an experiment that was done I was not statistically significant in that there were not enough people in the study to make a strong conclusion. They went into a nursing home and split it in half. They were all given a plant to put in there room. In one half they said to the seniors that they did not have to take care of it the staff would water it and prune it, so it was just there to give them enjoyment of looking at it. The other group was given the responsibility of looking after the plant i.e. watering  it making sure I got sunshine etc. After several years went by, they found that the people that just admired the plant died a lot sooner than the people that looked after the plant. There were many conclusions drawn from this event but the one I think is relevant is the people that looked after the plant had a purpose in life something they had to look after. Where the people that did nothing for the plant had no purpose because everything was done for them. Please do not infer that I am making a jab at your situation about needing help, it seems that thing are written in post and get misinterpreted because there is no clarification of what the other person means exactly. Therefore, you mention that you lived alone but you also had dog to look after. This gives you a sense of purpose if you have to look after the dogs they relied on you and needed you or else they would not survive. I believe this is the same as the flower in the nursing home. You may not need a human but you need something to wake up for. I going to end this but saying that there probably people that can have no human contact and survive, like a forest ranger and maybe some people prefer it that way. Again, the forest ranger has a sense of purpose to look after the forest. So if you have no one in your life and  nothing to look forward to or even a goal which you want to achieve (which we all on the panic centre have in common a goal to achieve), if we did not think that we needed to better our lives then why are there so many people in this program. Joining this group is a powerful statement that we want to do achieve something from this program because we want something else. The something could just be a stop to panic attacks.

Dizzy

14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Dizzy

I am the black sheep of the family. I have spent years with no significant other but not totally alone, I always had a dog or cat to care for, some times farm animals. I have spent six months out of the year all alone in a cabin on a lake with no neighbours. I also had no secure person I could call on in time of need. When I cut myself I took myself to the hospital and took myself back to my cabin. Oddly enough although I had no need for a social life it did not stop me from functioning in a social situation, I just had no interest. I was not the only one doing this at that period in time. Some of us can move in and out of social situations with no effect. I did not have panic attacks then even though there was some anxiety when I switched. Short lived though. The answer seems to be that I was physically fit and enjoyed what I was doing. I did not need any one, not like now. Now I am dependent on a lot of people and services who and which I use to keep my anxiety in check. I think what dictates how much anxiety you have is how well you fit with your needs.I do not fit well with needing people even though I am a social person. The more I need people the more anxiety I build. I think I could still close this computer and have no contact with anyone and not go stir crazy. But I don't want to anymore.
Times change and I have changed with them but I think this is what brought on the panic attacks. In my case, losing control (I thought) of my life. Agoraphobia. I just had to learn to get control back.

Here with you
Davit.
14 years ago 0 118 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
 

Hi everyone

I believe what everybody said is correct for them. There are different kinds of isolation one total Social isolation refers to the objective lack of contact with conspecifics (means the same species human). In humans, it may be cause by a pervasive withdrawal or avoidance of social contact or communication. It can contribute toward, or be the result of, many emotional, behavioral and physical disorders including anxiety, panic attacks, eating disorders, addictons, substance abuse, violence and overall disease. This I got from a definition, does this mean it is you? No. People can experience different kinds of loneliness or social isolation. One can be being alone with yourself and it is pleasurable to you to be alone and sit and read a book or contemplate things. The definition above is for people who feel lonely, some people can be with people and still feel lonely if this is your problems then you are more likely to be the definition above. One final thought, all some people need is one significant other does not have to be a wife or husband but some who will always be there for you if you lack this then again I think you are in danger of the definition above. If you choose to have few friends or even one that you can count on and you do not feel lonely then, as you said, you are ok. When I said I was big man on campus I do not feel that I need this anymore, however I think I need a least one person who is in my life with consistency, as you said I have no problem with being alone because I always have that one person.

Dizzy

 
14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Red

If you look at the definition of Agoraphobia it becomes obvious that there are a lot of phobias that fall under it as sub phobias. This makes your statement that there are different types of Agoraphobia true. I believe it is still a control thing. Do you control it or does it control you. 
I have to agree, choosing to live quiet does not breed mental illness. It may make it stressful to deal with crowds and noise, but again this is Agoraphobia and it may be uncomfortable but it can be dealt with as you have proved. I think it is a life choice. I do not have to live in the hustle and bustle of today's world if I choose not to. I need to be able to venture out in it and to do that I need to be able to ignore it. Some people like all that noise, there minds are conditioned to deal with it. To them it is no more stressing than a babbling brook. I know of one man from New York who on his holidays has a tape of city noise he plays so he can sleep. We are all different. Some times I like the excitement of the city, some times I don't.
More often I don't. Plowing a field takes as much concentration and is as noisy, but I would rather do it. For me it is agoraphobia, A control thing. The decisions are mine.
Self acceptance certainly made becoming panic free a lot easier for me.

Here with you
Davit
14 years ago 0 1665 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
HI:  I kind of agree with Red.  I'm naturally a quiet person.  I enjoy being alone.  I always have something to do or I can choose to veg. out for the day.  No problem with it.  Some people enjoy having lots of company.  That's o.k. too.  I go out when I feel like it, when I would like to see a little more action, shall we say.  Once you know yourself a little better, you can accept that there is nothing wrong with your lifestyle if it suits you. (if you are not experiencing anxiety, panic).  It is also true that sometimes isolation and not enough social contact can depress someone.  Again, depends on the person.
 
Sunny

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