Deborah,

Thank you for your frankness and vulnerability.  I went to bed concerned about you last night, and you were in my prayers.

 

I have two powerful tools for you.

1) visual call screening(I'll bet the telephone company will allow you to try it for free, and you'll feel better for free!!!)

2) mustering the courage some time to just slam that phone down!  I heard my supervisor do that, and it's an option few people know they have when they are in telephone conversation.

   Usually, we're face-to-face, and even then, there's a way of walking out of a situation, sometimes.

Hey Debora:  Yup, you had a setback with the argument with your sister.  You felt very upset with the things she said to you. She got under your skin, she knew what buttons to push, so to speak.  You had chest pains and shortness of breath and heart skipping beats afterward.  I experienced exactly the same thing with my sister, chest pains, breathlessness, and skipping beats.  This is the bad part.

 

Here's the good part.  It is now in the past.  You now know that this person cannot support you - for whatever reason, reason not important right now.  Next time she calls, politely and firmly let her know you are busy and you can't talk.  You need to be assertive to take care of yourself.  If and when you do converse don't talk on that subject.  My sister and I never discussed it again. I knew she didn't believe there was such a disorder and was unable to support me.  No use banging my head on the wall trying to convince her.  I just knew I'd find someone else and I did, a close girlfriend.

 

I'm explaining these things to you right now from my experience.  When it happened to me, it was not so easy.  I felt hurt and alone and cried a lot.  But I always had the spark of hope inside me.  I've learned so much since.

 

Another hard part - no one can make us do anything.  We own our emotions.  We are responsible for what we feel.  Yes, I know she said all those horrible things to you when you are so vulnerable right now and for that negativity she is responsible, but she is not responsible for your reaction.   If your sister calls again and continues her tirade against you, how do you want to respond this time?  Practice it.  Write it down, say it aloud.  Ask yourself, what is the outcome I am looking for next time she calls?  What can you do differently, how will you handle it differently.  What can you do to help yourself feel stronger next time this might happen?

 

We can't change other people, we can only change ourselves.  It's the same as when I had the argument with my brother, I wanted a time out, he refused it and we quarreled.  I was not happy with the way I handled it.  I know how to communicate, I decided to write him a letter - a polite letter, no trash talk, no disrespect - a letter simply stating my feelings and what I experienced so that he would "listen" to me uninterrupted.  I'm happy to say we did hug and tell each other we loved one another later.  I recognized that I could not change him, only myself and how I handled myself and the situation.  I am responsible for me and my actions, not his.

 

I also had upset tummy for a long time, acid reflux too.  It went away when the anxiety level dropped.  Don't worry, it happens to a lot of people with anxiety/stress.  Can you take an over-the-counter antacid med. for this?  Sometimes good to take before meals, or before bed.

 

As for the Paxil, I suggest you talk to your doctor before starting any medication including follow up appts. to check everything is going well for you.

 

Glad you are journaling.  You might recognize a pattern in your thinking style. 

 

Keep the faith,

Sunny

 

I so love when you write me Sunny, thank you. I would of wrote earlier but I have a bit of bad news, I foolishly answered a call from my sister late last night, I didnt want the ringer to wake up my son and husband or I might have ignored it. She upset me so bad Sunny you would not even believe it. The things she said to me should never be said to someone recovering from panic and depression. She basically called me "selfish and lazy" which I dont think I am and said I should be doing more to help my husband with his health problems, he was supposed to have surgery and he must lose a little weight and get his sugar under control before the Doctor will do it, she yelled that I should get him a new Doctor and he might die and all these horrible scary things, I am scared enough Sunny without these negatiave things, and I told her so and she replied "its not negative its reality and you should be scared very scared about you're husband" which I already am but I am sure the surgeon knows best. After we got off I had chest pains, shortness of breath {which I do not normally get} and my heart was racing and skipping beats, it took 2 hours to calm down, with self-talk and prayer, I finally fell asleep but woke up so very anxious its like it manifested itself again 7 hours later, my stomach is hurting so bad, like I swallowed tabasco sauce or something, I almost called the paramedics early this morning, I am SO angry with myself for letting her get too me and angry with her for saying those scary unhelpful hurtful things! I am not going to talk to her for awhile, I love her but she sent me into a full-blown panic attack, its sad actually she causes the damage and my son and husband have to put up with the aftermath, I am trying to calm down now, after not having a full-blown for 2 weeks I almost forgot how bad they can be, you dont think this will start happening everyday do you again? its just a setback? I was doing well and I do NOT want to go back to those dark days again, I think trying to scare a panic patient is just plain cruel, I will not let her ever do it again, right now I am in a bad way trying to calm myself and hoping its just an isolated incident, the tips you and Davit and others gave me helped Thank you.

 

I have a bottle of paxil in there Sunny I am just so afraid to take it because of what happened last time, I know there are new ones out there and I will discuss them with my nurse-practioner next appt next month, the klonopin does help the anxiety to a point but does nothing for the depression I know, I am very ashamed of myself for falling apart today, setbacks are common aren't they" especially early on? I just do not want this to start up again it took so much work to control it. I am going to stay away from people who beat on me like this, I am very upset already and my sister must of known it, as I said I love her but a little break right now is good, the symptoms that came were so scary, I thought I was having a heart attack and now my stomach is churning and burning, I am going to do some homework and write in my diary and try to get a bite to eat. Thanks for listening, I just have to keep telling myself "I will get better I will get better" You're post was very helpful Sunny, thank you, please write me back when you have the time, you give me hope.

Good morning Debora:  I knew a lady in my support group who had to try three different SSRIs.  She, like you, could not tolerate the first two.  The third one worked!  We cannot advise you on meds.  I can only tell you what I have heard, seen or experienced myself.  Can you talk to your doctor about this?  trying a different one or even something different as Davit takes?   He doesn't tolerate SSRI either.  Many yrs. ago before SSRIs came on the scene and before I even knew about CBT, my doctor prescribed Imipramine for 6 months.  It worked well for me.  Had slight nausea and dry mouth for about three weeks, then disappeared.  You know the kind of nausea you get when you are first pregnant?  Not even close to that. 

 

When you write that the box breathing is helping, do you realize that you are helping yourself?  That part of the CBT program is starting to work?  Good for you!

 

As for the fear, once you start having some positive steps forward, even little teeny baby steps, write it down.  Such as the box breathing helping.  Every time you do something positive, write it down.  At the end of the day, the end of the week, read them over.  See how you have improved.  These are positive reinforcements for your brain to register, that you are progressing, slowly but surely. See how your thinking positive thoughts have helped you bury the negative ones.

 

The past is gone.  Let it go.  That therapist didn't work out, doesn't mean you won't find a better one.  Each day is a new start.  When you get up don't think that you are going to suffer another bad day of fear and negativity.  When you get up, think in a positive manner, that even though you will still have symptoms today, you know box breathing will help you.  You know you will change those negative thoughts to a positive thought.  (You may have to keep reminding yourself to do this, this is a new way of thinking, something you are learning right now). This is the first step to a new beginning, the way you think and approach a problem. (no it may not be easy, but keep doing it and smile).

 

Looking at your agoraphobia, how about going outside every single day, even just to sit at the door, bring a drink with you, tea, coffee, juice, water, whatever you want.  Maybe the sun is too hot for you, or too bright as you mentioned before.  I wear a visor if it is that bad.  Not the greatest fashion statement, but it helps my eyes, I have glaucoma.  Sit and breathe in deeply.  Do your box breathing on the steps of the house.  If you feel like it, go in the yard and walk about for a 5 minutes.  Look around and appreciate your surroundings, breathe in deeply.  When you think you've had enough, go back inside.  This routine I would do every single day.  The next wk. I would try to walk down the street a bit, two, three houses down, then back again.  I would continue to do this even if I didn't feel like it.  It's also a way to acclimatize yourself to that heat and brightness you were talking about.  It's a goal for yourself and after you accomplish this goal, you will feel confidence in yourself.  Small goals to start with, but that's how you will build your confidence back.

 

You were mentioning about your looks and how bad you look right now, how your friends are mentioning it.  How about a routine every single day, put some make up on, even just a lip gloss and blush, if you don't wear make up.  Do your hair every day.  Always makes me feel better if I take care of myself.  I give myself a manicure and pedicure every single wk.  Usually a Friday night.  These are things you may be thinking, why bother and who cares anyway.  Well, for me, I bother because I am showing myself and the world that I care about myself and how I present myself to others.  Best foot forward and all that.  Besides, it feels good!  Release those endorphins by doing good things for yourself.

 

So, good luck with your study of CBT today.  One session at a time.  Remember you can always go back to a session you feel you need to understand better.  I've done it three times.  Each time I got a better understanding.

 

take care today, and positive thinking!

Sunny

 

 

 

 

Thank you Sunny you're words comforted me its nice to know I am normal and have not lost my mind. I guess I kind of thought when the panic's decreased everything would kind of fall into place and that has not happened, its almost like I traded panic for depression, does that make sense? did you ever feel severely depressed going through this?  I think I thought if I decreased the panic's I would stop being sad, be able to go out again and cook clean function and be happy and that did not happen, at least not yet, depression is almost as bad as panic isn't it? I just wish I could tolerate a antidepressant but I cannot go down that road again, the dizziness and nausea were unbearable and I was practically bedridden at least now I am up and dressed most of the time but when taking the antidepressants I cant believe how sick they made me and they did not help.

 

I will do the program and just give finding a therapist a break for awhile, I am not having much luck and very very few have evening hours or come to the home, and when you have severe agorophobia and no transportation it makes it really really hard. The part of the program I guess I am having trouble with, you mentioned I could ask you and the other members, is how to let go of the worrisome thoughts, of thinking positive and not dwelling on the bodily symptoms and thinking you are dying everyday? I cannot even tell the difference anymore what is physical or emotional? I am doing the box breathing as you suggested and it does help, I am finding out the hard way this disorder is not easy to get over and it takes a lot of time and work, the people around me are running out of patience and I dont expect them to understand totally because they do not have it only to acknowledge I do NOT want to be like this and want to get better, how I wish I had found a good therapist months ago and this site and perhaps it would not of gotten so bad. I have a strong desire to get well and I want to live just not scared and defeated, people around me say I am a different person, they dont recognize me anymore and I do understand that I dont recognize myself, I want to know "why this happened to me" but maybe I will never know it just happened as a result of fear, how can I let go of the fear Sunny? that is my biggest problem, the fear of the future.

 

I cannot give up, I love my son and my husband and I want to get well for them, and for me, its going to be hard fighting panic, depression, agorophobia and peri-menopause but other women do it and I have to be stronger, I have to keep believing there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You all have been wonderful to me and I thank you so much.

Hi Debora:  First of all you are a "normal" person.  Normal people have anxiety. You are not going crazy, you are not weak, you are not a misfit in society.  You are having anxiety/panic attacks which many, many people have (just look at this site) and can be helped.

I think Hugs has a good suggestion where to find someone, and also as you mentioned calling the hospital for list of therapists.  But you also wrote it is time for a break.  I think that might be a good idea.  You probably don't need the extra stress right now.

My suggestion would be to do as Davit writes, study the program by yourself.  Each session has homework, I think it is very important to do it.  Don't expect anything to happen overnight, this is not a wknd. study course.  Be patient, each session is like a puzzle piece.  When you are further along the knowledge curve, the pieces start to fit and you will be able to help yourself more.

Any questions you have about the sessions, post them here.  Any difficulties you may have understanding, post here.  We all started at the beginning.  Sometimes the beginning is the hardest part.

Can you pick a time of day to study when you know you won't be interrupted? 

 

One step at a time, even if a small step, adds up to walking.  We all started with baby steps.  I still remember mine.  It seemed like I would never get well, but I did.  You can too, don't despair, have hope and know in your heart and your mind that you can and will get better. 

We will support you and answer all the questions, anything at all that we can.  And as Davit writes, the moderators answer and guide too.  So feel free to vent, be angry, be sad, be anything you want, but don't give up.  We are here for you, for real.

 

Sunny

 

 

Thank you Hugs for your post that helped good advice and thank you for saying I had goodness in me, I dont feel like a bad person just a weak sick one now. Without transportation its hard to get appts, I have been working the program and even listening to my old luncinda bassett tapes I bought five years ago, they are a little out-dated but she has kind of a upbeat positive approach and it kind of helps hearing live voices and people who have gone through it, I just cant get past the "positive self-talk" part with this program or hers, the depression and body symptoms are so bad its really hard to positive self talk if I could get that concept I think I could see recovery in sight. I never realized what a expensive disorder this is to treat, if you get sick you go to the doctor get antibotics and usually feel better in a week or so, or a broken limb a month or so, this is harder and so much more complex to treat when you are dealing with the mind you cant run away from you're thoughts and I think whats most hard is people have turned from me in my life and I have to say I have never felt so alone in my life {other than this site} I feel shunned humilated weak and so sick, I know people do not understand as Davit says but I wish they would not react in repulsion or anger it just makes it so much worse and I think it hurts a person to get well again.

 

I am going to ask God to lead me to the right person to help me, I have not been successful myself so its time to turn it over to a higher power, I have been in bed too much, sleeping too much and now my legs are tingling from lack of exercise, but sometimes its SO nice just to sleep to escape it for awhile but I know its not healthy either in anyway. I will call the hospital and library and see if they can help me, there must be someone out there that can, I have insurance and they will get paid I cant think its hopeless and helpless, but I think I realized two things, I am NOT losing my mind and I have to do most of the work myself there is not magic pill or person, I know one thing I dont want to enter into another year like this, things just have to get better. Thank you all for you're prayers and help it means so much to me, so very much, to know I have this site if nothing else and people who care and understand, I hope one day I can be like you all, normal and happy and at peace again.

Now the rest is just what I would do and is not a recommendation. I would drop the therapist and quit looking for one for now till I understood more what they are supposed to be able to do. They don't cure you anyway they just guide. The program will guide you.

I learned about all the medications so I knew what to talk to the doctor about. I learned what I thought was right for me so I could know if it was doing what it was supposed to do. Doctors don't have enough time to do this for you, often it is a guessing game with them. Trial and error.

Unless you have a major mental disease, not just a panic disorder you can do it without medication but only you and your doctor can decide this. You can be like me and sunny but it is like baking a cake. You need the right ingredients and you have to do it in the right order. And like a cake, if it doesn't work the first time you have to try again. What you get out of it is what you put into it.

We will support you, and help you with the program. Since it is the Health Educators program I would hope they would answer any questions you have about it. They will be better with it than I am. I'm just a member also, just like all the other members. Here for you though.

Davit.

Debora,

Have you tried the medical society or university for physicians or grad students or recently credentialed psychologists?  Libraries might do this research for you for free too, since they are resourceful.  I would be discrete though, depending on your town/city size.

 

CBT also has governing bodies, depending on where you live, and those groups can give you direction. 

 

Sometimes, when it was worth it, I've paid people to do research for me, like a large reference library.  I'll leave decision to you.

 

Taking a break is important right now sounds right though.  Good luck and let us know how you're doing.  What you're doing is important, and done right, will be rewarding for you, your family, friends and society in general.

 

I can read your goodness coming between the lines...

Thank you all for you're replies. I am sorry I sound so despondant, it seems the panic has lifted somewhat but now the depression has a tight bad hold, I know this time of the month is never good for any woman but I think this goes deeper.

 

I was on the phone most of the day trying to find a CBT therapist and I came up empty. Most do not take insurance and there is no way I can afford $150.00-$200.00 an hour once a week that would bankrupt us. The one that I was kind of counting on does not have evening hours even through their website said they do, only early morning hours, I would have to walk for about 35 minutes to get there and back in the hot florida sun, I can barely stay out in the sunny daylight for 5 minutes and morning is a horrible time for me since I dont sleep much, I know I would never make it, they take my insurance but if I cannot get there its a no go, I need someone in the evening or too come to my home but I cannot seem to find that, and the one that does that now is not helping, its very depressing and I have cried for two days, I cant stop crying and thats scaring me, I must be in a severe depression or breakdown and I am crying out to help to professionals and coming up empty, I just want to give up I cant keep looking and getting let down that in itself is very depressing and my husband is furious with me and told me to fire this therapist he told me "he made you worse" that is what is really bothering me the most I think.

 

My friend told me I am looking for a magic wand, someone to "do the work for me" I dont agree I am willing to do the work but I know I need someone to "show me the way" everyone needs some help, my husband said to quit the therapist, stop looking for one because its causing me grief, just listen to my tapes I have and do this program, and kind of "kick it on my own" do you all think that is possible? can I get better without a CBT real live therapist and NO antidepressant? I am sure many of you have, do you think there is hope with just the Klonopin and the program this hell can end? Nine months is SO long to suffer and I have dragged everyone down with me, sometimes I even feel they would all be better off without me because I have been so down depressed scared and non-functioning, and I love life I want the joy and happiness again, am I doing something wrong? why would CBT work for eveyone but me? I hope that is not the case. I am going to give it a break for a few days finding a new therapist, its too draining and depressing to call and call and call and come up empty, it makes me feel like there is no help for me. Perhaps its time for me just to learn to live with it, suffer in silence and hope one day it will turn around, other people live with worse I guess, I have fought very hard and I dont have anything much left to fight with, sleeping is the only thing that helps, I will do the program and hope and pray for results, I am sorry I sound so down, depression is almost as bad as panic isn't it? especially when you cant take the antidepressants. I just hope one day to be like Sunny and Davit and the rest of you who have recovered, with time, prayer and work perhaps that day will come soon. Thank you.