Thank you! Lately I've been thinking about Pavlov's dog. How much are we conditioned by repetitious unpleasant situations. I know most if not all of us just block out unpleasant situations. Say for instance you don't like your job but you do it any way. You can block it but it is still there, or maybe you like your job but you don't like the drive there. You may block the thought but it is still there and being recorded and stored. Then all of a sudden you panic and the gate is open to all these unpleasant thoughts. In the case of the dogs the trigger was a bell. I don't know what my trigger is. I know what the disturbing thoughts are and what to do about them but I don't know what triggers them. Why can I be having a perfectly fine day and out of left field comes this attempt at panic. And immediately I go into prevention mode and stop it which is fine but! I'd like to know what started it in the first place. If I knew that I could break the cycle. As  JGD84 put it,"remove a stair". I would no longer be one of Pavlov's dogs.  In the near future I am going to do some thing I don't want to with the intention of inducing panic. I will have a friend along and between the two of us we may be able to find the trigger. The only problem being that since I will have a safe person with me it may not happen. Wish me luck.

Davit.

Hello everyone,

As promised I have done some searching and came upon a journal article which I thought was somewhat helpful, if not at least interesting (I'll include the citation at the bottom).

First of all, thanks for your response JGD84, actually in the article it did mention how panic is an escalating process and also how genetics do play a role (as found by looking at twin studies). So you are very much so correct.
 

This article, as Davit mentioned, talked about how neurotransmitters play an important role in the panic disorder. In this article the author talked about a study done by Antony and Swinson (researchers) who tried to induce panic in people by stimulating the nervous system, and they interestingly enough noted that although they can stimulate the nervous system to have a “panic attack”  not all people had an attack. Some people did not have an attack even when the nervous system was stimulated. In these cases, psychological factors played an important a role and more specifically the perceived control over the situation and the presence of a safe person (or rather having someone for social support). So in other words, these people were able to stop the panic attack from happening, even when their nervous system was stimulated, because they felt in control of the situation and because they had someone with them they trusted. I'm not sure if this answers your question Davit, can a panic attack be stopped by thoughts alone, it seems that in some people it is possible.

The article went on to talk about the staircase model as JGD84 mentioned, where normal physical sensations (such as a racing heart, dizziness) can be misinterpreted to indicate immediate danger. As a result of these misinterpretations the symptoms escalate and lead to even more misleading interpretations and catastrophic predictions.
 
Actual biological factors can play a role, for example the sensations that start the panic cycle, may be caused by too much caffeine, intense emotions, fatigue, hunger, hyperventilation or simply paying too close attention to bodily feelings.  According to the article, there are 70% of individuals who have reported that their panic attacks are triggered by a physical sensation, but often time people take this sensation and misinterpreted it as a sign of impeding disaster.

This article also talked about how pharmacotherapy and Cognitive Behaviour Therapy are both used for treating panic disorder, but it mentioned that evidence shows that CBT is more effective treatment for ensuring that gains are maintained over the long term.  CBT usually includes exposure to feared situations, exposure to exercises that trigger the feared sensations, cognitive therapy (where you consider evidence that contradicts fearful thinking, and relaxation based techniques. All of these are included in the program we have in the Panic Disorder center.
 
What I found interesting is that the article mentioned how for agoraphobic individuals exposure work is particularly useful, and that relaxation based techniques are thought to be less important than the exposure based and cognitive techniques.
 
 
 Not sure if this is helpful or not, I know it is a lot of information. Let me know what you think.
 
 
Luciana, Bilingual Health Educator


(Also, the citation is as follows: Antony, M.M. (2004). Panic Disorder. International Encyclopedia of the Social & Behavioral Sciences, Pages 11015-11020. I found the article through the York University's online resources center)

Davit/Luciana,

 

  My understanding is that panic is a escalating process... or think of a stairway... that needs each step to continue.  Literally, 'removing a step' disempowers the process and ceases the process from moving forward.  Obviously, easier said than done.  Breathing, relaxation techniques, questioning unrealistic thoughts, identifying (and avoiding) triggers all remove the proverbial 'step'. 

 

   I'm an RN... used to work in cardiac surgical units... and this is all pretty logical.  Having said that, I'm sure some people are predisposed to anxiety, just as someone may be predisposed to diabetes or weight issues.

 

   The 'key' w/ this program and other methods I've read (Linden/Barry) are to know yourself and your panic process so you can remove a 'step'.

 

   All of this you know... I can tell by reading your post.  However, it is nice to hear another person restate it.

 

   Lastly, it's been September since I've been to an ER... not long for some, for me, pretty good.  I've had about 3 'bad' panic attacks since, but have been able to 'breathe' through them... very hard AND scary, but I did it.  (Once, literally breathing into a brown paper bag... BTW, it works!)  For me, breathing correctly, above all else, has been key.  Whenever I get stressed I focus on 'boxed breathing'... and it helps a lot.

 

    My panic usually occurs from thoughts... usually initiated from a sensations.  The breathing and reading info on this website have been very helpful in keeping myself calm.  Again, not easy, by any stretch of the imagination.

 

     Take care!

I have been able when very tired to just say "I am not dealing with this now. GO AWAY", and it has gone but most of the time it has needed a little help from some Lemon Balm or Mint tea and usually some calcium. That is why the deficiency Question. I don't think I use Calcium efficiently. I do something similar to your systematic desensitization. Since the majority of causes for panic are unrealistic. I have been able to say to my self,"What is this, this isn't real, this isn't happening, " and over time I've found myself stopping the panic before it starts. But then it may work for me because the causes for me to panic are thoughts that aren't real. Does any one get panic from real situations? If I am in a crisis that causes the flight or fight reaction, I don't panic then. I panic later when I think about it and add unrealistic thoughts to it.  But this is normal and shouldn't cause the sort of reaction that causes panic. Or have we been having minnie panic attacks all our life and never had them cause the terrifiing reaction they do now.  Any way this is only more grist for the mill. Thank you for looking into this. I am sure that I and every one else will apreciate any information you come up with. I feel that more than half the battle is not knowing why! Not knowing what to do! And possibly when! (Pevention exercises) How much do relaxation exercizes help before doing something stressfull?  My panic was never of that sort but I read here that a lot of other peoples is. 

Davit.

Davit, I can see that you have certaintly done some research on this issue, thanks for sharing it with us.

You were asking if the right thoughts can stop panic attacks alone. This is easier said than done, but the brain is very powerful. It is the main "computer" which controls everything that goes on in our bodies. I think, if one was to try to stop a panic attack by just thoughts alone, it might be a bit difficult to do it from the very start.

You could definitely use your brain and your imagination to help reduce the intensity of panic attacks. There is a process called systematic desensitization which can be done with lots of practice and has been found useful in dealing with reducing anxiety / panic responses and phobias. The key to this practice is relaxation. First one must learn to be relaxed, whether it be by using breathing techniques or mental imagery. Then, you create a hierarchy of situations which may induce a panic attack, from the ones least likely to induce or cause the attack, to the ones most likely. You are then supposed to imagine yourself in each situation (starting from the least likely, to the most likely) and go through the relaxation technique practiced. Obviously this can take a long time, as different individuals vary in how much time they need to feel relaxed in a given situation, the key is not to rush.

The point is, by practicing this technique, individuals are better equipped to deal with the situations when they arise in real life.

I will have to do more research about it though, and I'll get back to you. This is just what I remember from one of my classes, and it stuck with me, because it made me realize just how powerful the brain really is.

 

There are some sites on this subject but the going is pretty heavy. So correct me if I am wrong. It would seem that the sympathetic system floods the synapses with, and I'll keep it simple here, chemicals to stimulate the receptors and the parasympathetic system removes them when not needed by either degradation or by putting them back into storage. Medication stops or slows down the release of these chemicals. But it does it wide spread which causes the side affects, dry mouth watery eyes etc. because the signals that need to be there to alleviate that problem aren't there. This is where the idea that the nerves are wearing out comes from. This I believe is where the saying nervous breakdown comes from. Is it possible that when a panic attack just won't quit it is because the parasympathetic system isn't doing it's job. I can't believe that it is due to depletion of the chemical needed because a little pill will do the job. The little pill can only work as a stimulant or a depressant as the case may be. So this being the case that the nerves can't wear out, it still leaves the question, why a panic attack instead of the normal anxiety of a flight or fight reaction? It would seem to me that it is caused by over stimulation of the sympathetic system or under stimulation of the parasympathetic system. Now here I get led into wondering about deficiency problems, vitamins minerals etc. and what about allergys? But that is another subject. To get back to the main one. Can the right thoughts either stimulate the parasympathetic system or depress the sympathetic system? If this is the case then a person with enough practice should be able to stop panic attacks by thought alone. Or at least the right kind of thoughts. And if this is the case how do I stop the wrong kind ot thoughts. I need more information here. Put this way it seems so simple but it doesn't stop panic attacks from being scary. Any one out there with thoughts or information on this? Am I on the right track here or wasting my time?  Going searching for answers.

Davit

Davit